Older New Guy Seeking Guidance

[cjw1812]

Hi everyone,

I am new to this forum but not new to lifting. I am seeking some guidance and feedback from the more experienced forum members here.

Some details about me.

Male
51 Years Old
6'2"
265lbs

Current confirmed 1RM (as of October 2018)
Squat - 400x1
Deadlift - 465x1
Bench - 290x1
Press - 175x1

Training Background

• Football and martial arts in high school/university. Lifted consistently during this time. Weight fluctuated between 220-235.
• Marriage/kids/career. Almost zero activity for a significant period of time. Fatness ensued. By 2010 my weight blows out to an all time high of 330 lbs and I am diagnosed with Type 2 diabetes. Regardless of the diagnosis I continue to treat my body like an amusement park.
• I get very, very sick and decide I need to regain control of my health so I start lifting again in 2012. Weight loss ensues, strength gains are made and today I feel better than I ever have.

Since I started lifting again I have been more the most part adhering to 531. My progress of late has pretty much ground to a halt and given that I think my sleep and eating patterns are pretty sound I am thinking that it could be my current programming that is preventing further progress. As I get older, I find recovery to be an issue, particularly after squat and deadlift days. In fact, it leaves me feeling like crap for the most part. My goals are to push my lifts as far as a I can. I'm hoping that a 450 squat, 495 deadlift and 315 bench are still a possibility for me.

From reading these forums I have gained some valuable information about programming for the more "mature" lifter and it would seem that perhaps a modified Texas Method or HLM program might be a better consideration for me. Dont get me wrong, 531 has been great and served me well; but as I get older, the accumulated volume of the supplemental work (FSL 5x5) plus assistance work is taking its toll. In addition, one of the key elements of the program (the + sets, especially on squats and deadlifts) leaves me feeling like shit for days. I'm okay being sore, but being so sore that you have trouble walking almost a week later no longer registers in my brain as being a good thing.

In the context of this community I'm reading a lot about lifters being referred to as Advanced Novice, Early Intermediate, etc. Based on my level of lifting experience I'm not quite sure where what category I would fit into here.

I apologise for the lengthy first up post.

Looking forward to your feedback.

[Andy Baker (KSC)]

So the 531 max sets plus the 5x5 volume work would actually be quite similar to the 4-day TM type routine. I don't know what FSL stands for and I don't know at what weight you are doing your 5x5 work relative to your intensity sets, could be too heavy or too light and both of these are less than ideal.

A few things to consider:

On the max effort sets - you don't necessarily need to go for a "rep max" every time. An incremental increase will suffice and not build up so much fatigue. A lot of people mess this up with the Texas Method as well. If one your 5s week for instance you hit 405x5 last time, all you need is 410x5 this time. Even if you can do an extra rep or two or three you don't - you take your small PR and leave gas in the tank for next time. And you also don't throw 425 on the bar and do another set of 5 just because you can.

The holy grail of intermediate programming is the ability to set small weekly PRs with a little bit of gas in the tank. This means adaptation is outpacing fatigue build up.

Another thing you might do is take your 4 workouts and extend your "week" from Monday to Monday. I have TONS of older guys that do this and many younger guys as well and it can work wonders for recovery.

For instance:

Monday - Bench Intensity / Press Volume
Wednesday - Squat Intensity / Deadlift Volume
Friday - Press Intensity / Bench Volume
Monday - Deadlift Intensity / Squat Volume
Wednesday - Repeat cycle

[cjw1812]

Hi Andy,

Thanks for replying.

FSL stands for First Set Last and is generally your first work set. It's based on the Original 531 program written way back when. The weight will vary and is a percentage of whatever your training max is for that cycle. Across a 3 week cycle it will be 65%, 70% and then 75%.

Using squats as an example, my current program calls for a training max of 85% of my 1RM. This was my squat session from this week:

135 - 5 reps
170 - 5 reps
205 - 3 reps
240 - 3 reps
275 - 3 reps
310 - 3 reps
340 - 3 reps

255 - 5x5@75%

The same principles apply for each lift. I've used the above rotation before but it one done with only one main lift per day. This didn't work out too well as I felt that only doing one lift every nine days was leaving too much time in between each session but the way you've structured it means your getting a variation of each main lift twice a week. Can the Texas Method flexible enough to be structured in a number of different ways over a nine day cycle.

One thing that concerns me is time spent in the gym. From what I've read, a lot of the contributors to the forum spend on average 90 minutes in the gym. One of the upsides of 531 is that I can warm up, do my main lift, supplemental and assistance and be out in less than an hour. Mind you, the rest periods for 531 in general see to be MUCH shorter than whats prescribed here.

I've read some of yours and Jonathon Sullivans stuff and also watched some content of both your YouTube channels and it's really good. At 51 I'm by no means an old fart but I think the material that you guys are pushing out is more in tune with my line of thinking about my training.

I've read good things about The Barbell Prescription and will order a copy.

Thanks once again.

[Treg]

Hope you won’t mind if I weigh in here. I’m 56 years old, started lifting at 51 after having skipped the gym for about eight years (and having only worked out on machines prior to that), and only discovered Starting Strength about three years ago. My personal experience as a somewhat older lifter has verifified what Rip, Andy, and others here have been saying for years – it’s the volume that kills us older lifters. You need to find the minimum effective dose (thank you, Matt Reynolds) of overall stress throughout the week that will allow you to add 5 lbs. the next week; anything beyond that will just delay recovery and adaptation, and make you feel like hell.

For a long time, for whatever weird reason, I assumed that the various intermediate programs that are talked about here wouldn’t work for me. I was convinced that the only way to make long term progress was to kill myself with heavy volume, necessitating a two-week training program to allow time to recover. I would do my heavy squats on Mondays and feel like I’d been run over by a truck for the rest of the week.

But then this past fall I had some major health issues, had to skip the gym for a couple months, and then slowly came back on a sort of modified linear progression that gave me a chance to start over. That sort-of old-man-like LP then morphed pretty seamlessly into what I think is a fairly orthodox heavy-light-medium program that allows me to add weight every week without ever really feeling beaten up, just appropriately fatigued for a day. It’s still early and I know I’ll need to make adjustments, but I’m amazed and pretty psyched to find that I can get by on way less volume than I used to think I needed.

Another thing I’ve found – and maybe this is a function of being a little older than a lot of people here, or maybe it’s just me – is that it’s important to avoid the Big Wallop day. I’ve taken a cue from Michael Wolf (Wolf Method!) and spread the volume and intensity out across the week so that I’m never really crushed.

Finally, I would urge you to purchase and read the absolutely invaluable books Rip, Andy, and others here have published: Starting Strength, Practical Programming for Strength Training, and The Barbell Prescription. Mandatory reading!

[Andy Baker (KSC)]

I like the phrasing of the "Big Wallop Day" and I agree. My preference with the HLM programs is to spread the stress around as well and really only have one really hard exercise each day. And even better for a lot of people is to simply train on a split routine with one heavy lift per day and avoid the full body workouts altogether.

[cjw1812]

Thanks Andy.

A couple of questions.

1. I’m guessing the suggested program is a variant of TM?
2. Which is better for when a 5RM is no longer feasible on Intensity Day? Ruining it out or rotating rep ranges
3. Are 2.5 lb weekly increases acceptable for bench and press?

Thanks

[Mark Rippetoe]

Practical Programming for Strength Training | The Aasgaard Company

[cjw1812]

I purchased The Barbell Prescription. One of the best investments I’ve ever made. I’ll be running a 4 day split as suggested by Andy above.

I’m confused about my starting weight selection for the Texas Method. I don’t have a 5RM but do have confirmed 1RM’s. I’m sure I read somewhere that 75% of your 1RM is a suggested starting point for Volume Day and 85% for Intensity Day. Using my squat max (400) as an example, that’ll be 300 5x5 on volume days and 340 5x1 on Intensity Day.

Can any of the more experienced forum members suggest a good starting point?

Am I on the right track here?

[Mark Rippetoe]

Practical Programming for Strength Training | The Aasgaard Company

The Barbell Prescription is based on PPST3. That's why I posted this link.