Correct implementation of bands

[Trent Bologna]

Say I'm thinking about using banded squats as another exercise variation to bring up my squat. Would this be appropriate for someone weak at the bottom or the top? Clearly the bands emphasize the higher-and-higher region but would you think about this as a good idea for someone weak at the bottom so the bands sort of 'map' onto their existing strength curve so the muscle synergies are trained with a similar 'relative' intensity over the entire ROM? Maybe it be better to think that bands are suitable for someone strong at the bottom because the training effect would be to emphasize the weakness?

[Mark Rippetoe]

Weak at the top? Of a squat? Aren't quarter-squats easier?

[kessg]

Trent Bologna is a known troll. Don't bother engaging with this person.

[Trent Bologna]

Sure, they're easier. And rack pulls are easier than DLs from the floor. Just because you can do a partial pull with 700lbs doesn't mean you'll lock out a 550lbs deadlift. For the deadlift and bench press I think there's a greater variety in the range of motion where people tend fail the rep. Some people can't lock out the last inch. Other can't break it off the floor. So, different exercises are used to bring up a weak section of the movement or weak muscles. There is less variety when people fail squats. Maybe you are alluding to this? Even so, I think there are still individual differences depending on the strength curve of that individual that can be tweaked the same way that people work on their bench and deadlift training. How do you see things, Mark?

[Mark Rippetoe]

Have you failed to lock out 550 after having locked out 700 in the rack?

[Trent Bologna]

Have you failed to lock out 550 after having locked out 700 in the rack?

No, I only pull from the floor. I pulled those numbers out of my ass just like you did when you read that chapter of PP on the podcast. However, I know very accomplished lifters who are in this situation. The numbers may be a little different but they are weak at lockout and pull way more off knee height blocks or pins than they DL.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Have you figured out a way to use bands to make the squat harder at the bottom?

[Trent Bologna]

I thought this Q&A worked the other way around, Mark? But, no, to answer your question, I have not figured out a way to do that. I don't see what this has to do with my OP though.

We could talk about the OP in terms of DL instead if you prefer? I think I like that example a little better. Using bands would this increase in tension throughout the ROM be a suitable training means for someone with a weak start or a weak finish? I can see reasoning both ways, ie someone who is weak off the ground who gets stronger the further they can get off the floor might think that banded DLs corresponds to their current strength output at every point in the ROM. So they can train the whole movement without any relatively 'easy' or 'hard' parts; on the other hand someone who is strong off the ground and weak at lockout would think to himself that the banded DLs would be good training for their lockout. In one case you're looking at a way to train the whole movement giving an individual with certain type of strength curve. In the other case you're focusing specifically on the weakness of an individual with another type of strength curve. What do you think about this?

[Sean Herbison]

Say I'm thinking about using banded squats as another exercise variation to bring up my squat. Would this be appropriate for someone weak at the bottom or the top?

It would be most appropriate for someone using a triple-ply suit that forces them out of the bottom, but doesn't support as much at the top.

I know very accomplished lifters who are in this situation. The numbers may be a little different but they are weak at lockout and pull way more off knee height blocks or pins than they DL.

If they pull 700 from pins at the knees, but can't lock out 550, it's not because they're weak at lockout. Assuming they don't fail below the knees, if they're doing rack pulls with enormously more weight than they can deadlift, they're probably cheating the form on the rack pull. This is usually done by getting a more upright back position, which uses more legs and less back, turning the rack pull into a quarter-squat with the bar in your hands.

[51M0n]

I've never understood this about band training for non-equipped lifters, if you're failing your deadlifts at lockout, how does making your weak point even harder help?

The only explanation I could think of would be if you wanted to keep the weights for the pull off the floor sub-maximal to lower the cumulative fatigue of the pull, although that could just as easily be done with rack pulls.

Unless you are training with multi-ply gear, I think that bands and chains are pointless.