article-novice effect

[Kevin Cale]

Hi Mark,

In your new article you gave Zach's increase in the squat.
Was just interested, what was his increases in the DL, bench and press?
Thanks

[JLascek]

Hi Mark,

In your new article you gave Zach's increase in the squat.
Was just interested, what was his increases in the DL, bench and press?
Thanks

Zach's press started at 85 and I watched him do 140 the other night.

His deadlift started at 225, and I watched him do a hard, shitty set at 315. I may have allowed him to work up to 225 incorrectly his first day, but I don't recall anything horribly-ass wrong that first night. However, I made the mistake of not checking the jumps he was taking in the deadlift, because he made a lot of stupid jumps that got him stuck early on which resulted in being very undeveloped regarding deadlift strength. I take the blame for his ignorance because I should have kept a closer watch on him. In my defense, he used to come in the gym to train at 11:00 PM or later -- I can't be expected to stay that late and coddle that goober.

His bench started at 165 (something he actually did before this program), and is some where around 210 now. Maybe 215.

His power clean is limited by his technique. I think he is up to around 80 kilos now, but he is not very proficient at this movement. Again, he comes in the gym at these weird-ass hours so it's hard to get eyes on him, especially towards the end of his training session.

As you see, Zach experiences set backs just like any other guy. We find out what is wrong, address the problem, and keep training appropriately. He improves every day.

---------

And for the record, Zach is not gifted genetically. It's a copout for some of you to assume that he has done what he's done because of genetics. Wichita Falls is not a mecca for genetic freaks. He's a regular kid who followed directions, and if you actually tried, you could get similar results.

[Paul Richardson]

With regard to Bryan Fox mentioned in the article, it's mentioned that you (Justin) 'noticed' he could still be put on a linear progression and make gains. I'm curious as to how you noticed this? (and really how you deal with this issue with other clients). Do you literally just start a person on a linear progression program and if they show gains keep them on it and if not change it up?

What about if a new client says they've done SS before and are no longer a novice? Do you 'believe' them or still chuck 'em on linear for a bit to be sure?

Paul

[Mark Rippetoe]

http://www.startingstrength.com/reso...t=14195&page=2

post #15

[JLascek]

With regard to Bryan Fox mentioned in the article, it's mentioned that you (Justin) 'noticed' he could still be put on a linear progression and make gains. I'm curious as to how you noticed this? (and really how you deal with this issue with other clients). Do you literally just start a person on a linear progression program and if they show gains keep them on it and if not change it up?

http://www.startingstrength.com/reso...9&postcount=15

What about if a new client says they've done SS before and are no longer a novice? Do you 'believe' them or still chuck 'em on linear for a bit to be sure?

Well, we don't really get a whole lot of gym members from Wichita Falls that have even heard of Starting Strength, much less used a barbell properly before. In the year that I have been here, nobody has came in and claimed "I am no longer a novice." When I tell people that anybody who joins this gym learns how to squat, press, and deadlift before anything else, some will say that they already know how (they don't).

Let's say that your scenario happened, then I would deem whether or not I "believed them" by talking about their training history, how much they weigh, where their lifts started, where they are now, what their body looks like, etc. I would be checking their form anyway, and there would probably be some things to correct. Depending on a lot of factors, I might even see how much of a linear progression I can get out of them (if I deem it necessary). The percentage of people that actually get through the entire linear progression correctly is quite small, anyway.

This is a rare scenario and might be more frequent in a bigger market. I'd just observe and collect data and come to a logical conclusion, which is what I try to do with everything else.

[Paul Richardson]

Sounds sane to me, I guess this is also one of the things that just comes with experience as a coach/trainer/whatever you want to call yaself, thanks for pointing me to the other answer didn't see that one.

Paul