Power Clean elbows issue

[Luke Evans]

Coach,

I decided to start doing power cleans, (in order to, you know, not be a pussy), but I've been having an issue getting my elbows up.

This past Monday was my first day with power cleans. I did all my warmup sets, working up to 40kg for my work sets. I racked the last rep of my last working set then happened to look forward into the mirror. My elbows were pretty much vertical.

Aw, shit.

I got home and re-read the Power Cleans chapter in SS as well as watched the video again from the dvd. In the dvd, you say to a pretty tall guy that people with long forearms relative to their upper arms can have difficulty racking the bar with elbows up and that a wide grip can be used to correct this. I tried a wider grip but it just wasn't happening.

I also watched this video of yours on the barbell shrug and it got me wondering. Starting at 1:40 you clean the bar a couple times but your elbows are pointing down. I've tried wider bar grips and messing around with a broomstick, I just can't get a bar properly racked on my shoulders with my elbows up. I don't even have your excuse of being old and creaky, I'm 24.

So my questions are:

1. I think I might have the forearm relative length issue, how should I measure my arm to determine if this is the case?

2. To what extent is the strength-building effect of the power clean compromised if I can't rack it with my elbows up? Am I going to end up hurting myself if I clean with my elbows down?

3. (Unrelated to the power cleans) I love the overhead press. Until I reach the point where I'm overtraining/hindering my recovery, is it a problem if I OHP on both my workout A and B days? Other than INDTP?

As an aside, when I finished my workout yesterday I was feeling petulant so I curled in the squat rack. The joke was on me though, no one else cared because they all think that's what it's there for. They were probably wondering what all that other weird shit I was doing there was. Hooray, commercial gyms!

Thanks!

[Mark Rippetoe]

1. I'd have to see. Post a video.

2. The training effect of the PC comes from the pull, not the rack. The correct rack merely ensures that you do not destroy your wrists and elbows.

3. When do you intend to bench? If you press that day too, do it lighter after you bench.

[Tamara Reynolds]

Load at least 80 kg on the bar IN THE RACK. Rack this in a front rack position as if you were about to front squat. Don't front squat, just stand there with the bar in a front rack position. Make a video of this so we can see your elbows and rack position.

The odds of you racking a broomstick correctly are slim to none. I can't even do that, and I can rack cleans just fine.

[Luke Evans]

Alright so. I filmed myself doing power cleans and well, I hope you have a bucket handy. I knew my form was bad but I had no idea just how bad it is. Video here.

A couple things I noticed myself watching the video was that my hips are pretty low, as is my chest. I'm pretty sure this is why my back keeps being all arched. Ugly stuff. If you're wondering why the weights are so small, my gym doesn't actually have larger plates for smaller weights. The only full-sized weights available are the 25kgs, and I sure as shit can't clean 70 kilos.

Having watched the video I could tell that my initial pull was a mess, so I went ahead and did some DLs and filmed that too. Here it is. I was trying to correct some of the stuff I saw in the PC video like keeping my chest up.

Having seen my form on those two lifts makes me wonder what its like on the Squat, OHP and bench. Might be equally bad. I think my problem is that I don't go through a step by step set-up to get into the right position, I have a jumble of cues that flit in and out of mind and I try to fix them as I remember them.

Tamara, I'm sorry, I forgot about the front squat rack position video. Does the current PC video help enough? If not I can head to the gym again this weekend for it.

For general info, I'm about 6'2 tall, 85kgs, in the PC video those were 10kg plates so 40kg total, the DL ones were 15s so 50kg total.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Tamara?

[Tamara Reynolds]

My gut reaction from that video is that you can't rack well enough for me to waste your time on power cleans at first. You are likely a candidate for power snatches. But, if you came into my gym on the first day like that, I would make you do the drill I am talking about to see. Because in your video, you are holding the bar in your hands, and that's not what a correct front rack is.

I made you a video of what I want you to do:

[Clay Simczyk]

OP, put any future videos on the Techniques Forum. That way people like me who need to work on their analytical skills can at least get you on the same planet and save the experienced coaches to fine tune the details.

[Luke Evans]

Thanks for the responses guys.

Tamara, I'm going to the gym again today so I'll get that video for you. I've got a question however. When you say I'm likely a candidate for power snatches, do you mean purely because of my current poor rack form, or because I might have the forearms-upper arms proportion issue?

[Tamara Reynolds]

Thanks for the responses guys.

Tamara, I'm going to the gym again today so I'll get that video for you. I've got a question however. When you say I'm likely a candidate for power snatches, do you mean purely because of my current poor rack form, or because I might have the forearms-upper arms proportion issue?

If your anthropometry prevents you from getting into a correct front rack position, then you won't power clean. If you ARE physically capable of doing it but after spending 15 minutes working on your rack, it still looks like that... Then you wouldn't be power cleaning in my gym. I'd switch you to power snatches right then. I don't believe in wasting people's time. If I can get you to rack a snatch correctly in 5 minutes, we will simply move on to that, and then sort out your front rack in the future.

[Luke Evans]

If your anthropometry prevents you from getting into a correct front rack position, then you won't power clean. If you ARE physically capable of doing it but after spending 15 minutes working on your rack, it still looks like that.. Then you wouldn't be power cleaning in my gym. I'd switch you to power snatches right then. I don't believe in wasting people's time. If I can get you to rack a snatch correctly in 5 minutes, we will simply move on to that, and then sort out your front rack in the future.

Okay so I attempted to do the rack for a front squat. It was fairly awkward because I'm not used to it and the bar kept slipping due to my arms being slick with sweat but here it is.

Sorry it's a bit on the long side, the youtube editor only allows the beginning and end to be trimmed. I was able to stretch my arms out in front like you do in your video but again the bar started slipping.

Relevant times in the vid:
0:06 arms stretched out with bar racked
0:33 elbows up with bar racked, hands way past my shoulders
Unfortunately once I had some plates on the bar it's no longer possible to see much.

The bar is supposed to rest in my fingers, not the palm of my hand when racked properly right? What I found when trying it some more was that when my elbows are right up, my hands are halfway past my neck. I'm sure I could be more flexible, but right now if I had the bar resting on my fingers with my elbows pointing forwards and up, the bar would be sticking through my neck Frankenstein-style. Widening my grip seemed to make a little bit of difference, but not a lot.

I realise the video and my technique are fairly sloppy but hopefully you're still able to get some idea of my anthropometry for my racking.

Thanks again for your time, I appreciate it.