Stupid, WEAK (natural) bodybuilders!

[Glenn]

For people who--supposedly--want to correct stereotypes (weightlifting is bad for you, exercise = jogging), refute wrong ideas (deep squats are bad for the knees) and generally break down barriers to unite people interested in strength (see Mark's recent posts on getting Crossfitters and Oly lifters together)... you all seem unnaturally attached to your prejudice against bodybuilders.

How many people here (you too, Rip) have actually trained with a competitive natural bodybuilder? Not many, I bet.

Here are some dumb, weak, stupid natural bodybuilders demonstrating how weak they are:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUSRoxGCB9U
(deep enough?)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcJKDhn9GKs
(Ok, the salute is a little corny)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HxY47YGgzQ
(Uh-oh, he's strapped in with one hand supinated! And "bouncing"! Because steel plates bounce so much on a regular matted floor. All you brutes with a 385 1RM better jump on here to correct him. I am sure he would appreciate advice from people who are experts on deadlifting because you read a book!)

All these guys are competitive natural bodybuilders.

Why don't you all quit hating and have some respect for guys who also love to lift heavy?

(Mark... I will be very interested to see if you agree to let this go up.)

[Mark Rippetoe]

I have no problem approving this post. The lifting is interesting, and the gym in the squat video looks like an actual training hall. But you're asking us to assume that these guys are 1.) natural, and 2.) that they actually compete in their underwear. 1.) I can give you since I never assume anyone is geared unless it is obvious in some way to a person with years of experience around such people. So the guys are strong. They are. But 2.) is a stretch; you just know they are bodybuilders who compete in their underwear, and we're supposed to take your word for the fact?? I would NEVER assume this about a guy without proof. I thought that one of the links was at least a physique picture of one of the lifters.

And when did I say that bodybuilders -- clean or otherwise -- were not ever strong? I have merely said that training and dieting this hard for the sake of appearance only was twisted and sick, and probably indicative of deep-seated insecurities. Why, I'll bet if you ask these guys about training they'd first tell you about their work, not their bodyfat. And they might also be pissed that you posted their videos in this thread. In fact, I'd say that if anyone should be concerned about my approving this post, it's probably you, not me.

[Smiler Grogan]

As a soldier, let me first say thank you, some-nameless-guy in a doo-rag, for your single deadlift. It has made all the difference.

And the bodybuilding hating has never really been about strength, has it? I always thought it's because dudes aren't supposed to pose in banana-hammocks on a stage with other dudes, to be judged by other dudes. They certainly aren't supposed to help each other shave their asses and brush on fake tan. (Saw it on MTV last week, dude getting ass shaving assistance from his DAD!?! Knowingly, with cameras present.) This was confirmed by a chick at my gym who (at least claims she) used to date said ass-shaver.

That's the stuff that's unacceptable, no matter how natural you are. Props for the big lifts, but I like to keep it manly, hetero, and psychologically balanced before, during, AND after I train. Of course that's just me.

[nisora33]

First off, too bad they don't give out first place trophies for trolling, Glenn.

Secondly, there are exceptions to just about every cliche, and just because you found a few needle-in-a-haystack examples that contradict the generally held consensus around here about bodybuilders won't and probably shouldn't change anyone's mind.

The vast majority of "bodybuilders" at my gym are lifting way below their potentials, especially considering that some (but not all of them, mind you) juice; it's just that when you put appearance ahead of performance like Rip observed, you're a bit of a sham. To quote Bill Starr:

"Those pumped-up specimens sincerely believe that they?re admired by the rest of the members and looked upon as supermen by the general public...Since they?re not strong and don?t use their muscles for any reason other than to gratify their own egos they?re no more than physical abominations ? facades fakes ? for muscles equal strength, and if a person doesn?t have sufficient strength to back up those showy muscles, he?s a joke."

They're are a few, a very few bodybuilders where I work, that have the strength to back up their muscles. But they're in the minority, that's all anyone is saying.

This post is for the impressionable young minds out there that might've been impressed by Glenn's post, by the way. There isn't enough open rational inquiry in the world as it is.

Stacey

[stronger]

if bodybuilding routines were the most effective for becoming strong, that's what people who compete to get strong would be doing.

Of course people who bodybuild are going to be stronger than the average joe. That's pretty damned obvious. That doesn't mean it's the most efficient way, nor does it mean that training to seem is better than training to be.

If size wasn't associated, consciously or unconsciously with strength, no one would want to be a bodybuilder. That's how you know that training for strength is the true form, because no one would train for size if it didn't have the connotation of strength to go along with it.

[JLascek]

Set the debate about opinion on bodybuilding aside and you still have a situation where people can A) have room to improve the mechanical efficiency of their lifts and B) have room to further increase their strength and subsequently their size by doing them correctly in a good training program.

Yes, people can become very strong whilst doing movements inefficiently and programming incorrectly. These people make progress in spite of not doing it correctly, so imagine what they'd be capable of by doing it correctly.

I guess I'm kinda speaking for Rip here, but a bodybuilder who achieves their size and strength in the most efficient, intelligent way would be better than the alternative. This is, of course, if we ignore the whole vanity discussion.

[JLascek]

Oh, and bouncing a deadlift is not a deadlift. There is no stretch reflex inherent in a deadlift, and when "touching and going" from the floor (which is really a bounce, albeit a smaller one) is performed, a stretch reflex is performed which turns the movement into a "yahoo" instead of a deadlift.

[Glenn]

Ha!

Ok, I'm impressed that you let that go up.

Yep... all three are natural bodybuilders. I know them. Well, actually, one I only know via online communication. But one (405x27) is actually my training partner! I was the one holding the camera.

[matclone]

[Y]ou all seem unnaturally attached to your prejudice against bodybuilders.

You're right. I cannot shake my prejudice that bodybuilders look totally ridiculous and waste valuable time working "bodyparts" and feeding like nonsense to young impressionable lifters. In any case, you have all your magazines and supplements, and Golds Gyms, and arm struts, so for the relatively few of us who like black iron, why do you care what we think?

[TravisRussellDC]

That second video was taken at the Gold's Gym in Champaign, IL which I used to manage back in 01-03. Layne was not a member when I worked there, so I won't comment on him at all.

However, I will say that a couple of former members there are some of the strongest guys I've ever had the pleasure of knowing. My buddy John used to train there and was the only Pro Strongman in the state of IL when I got started in the sport. At 265 pounds, and a lifetime clean lifter, he became my first real training partner, one of my best friends, and a groomsman in my wedding. He is photographed deadlifting on the cover of "Powerlifting" by Barney Groves if any of you have that book. John used to do some crazy high rep shit, like his 40, 30, 20, 10, 5 squat workout. 40 reps with 135, 30 reps with 225, 20 reps with 315, 10 reps with 405 and 5 reps with 495. Not to mention I got to see him deadlift 550 for 15 reps. Of course, he was not a bodybuilder...

However, my friend Kevin (also one of my groomsmen) was a competitive bodybuilder and I had the pleasure of spotting him for a set of squats which included 405 for 27 reps. Of course, he was 5'6" and had spent 20 years as a powerlifter...

None of this has anything to do with the original post other than the fact that the 2nd video was taken at a familiar location which brought up some good memories. Thanks for that much. Oh, except that I have trained with competitive bodybuilders, natural and juiced. As well as competitive powerlifters and strongmen (natural and juiced) and I can usually tell with about 95% accuracy which lifters are "enhanced" and which ones are not. But, they're adults and they can make their own decisions. It's not my place to judge.

Oh yeah, and during my last week of employment there, because the former owner was such a dick, my wife and I had sex all over the gym after I closed it down. Hey, I was 23 and not the mature, respectable doctor that I am today. Don't tell anyone...