How important is order of exercises?

[sking1001]

Sorry I posted this on facebook (then deleted it) before I realized #AskRip was for non-lifting related questions. It's been a while since I've encountered this, so I totally forgot to ask you during the seminar last weekend:

I have had a couple trainees, one novice, one intermediate, ask the same question, "Is it okay if I bench before squatting, because I'm too tired after squatting?" When I told them no, they respond with, "But I can't bench as much after I squat. I'm pretty much dead." After passing them the tissues and explaining that training is supposed to be hard, I tell them the squat should have the higher priority, because we can use more weight. Basically if you can't bench as much after squatting, just get stronger and you will bench more. If fatigue is an issue, I would rather them sacrifice weight on the bar with the bench vs the squat.

I think I've ask other coaches in the past, and some don't think it's that important, so am I being to dogmatic? If you were asked this question, what would your answer be?

[Mark Rippetoe]

I agree with your reasoning. Maybe you should investigate the dietary situation here. Sounds like poor workout preparation.

[Brodie Butland]

I'll do bench press first if I'm benching heavy and doing everything else lighter on that day--but that's at most one day a week. If I do a heavy squat and bench on the same day, squatting always goes first.

I'm assuming that these particular folk are not doing a three-day competition split, so I would keep insisting as you are.

[Tennisgolfboll]

Since alot of people will have their ability to bp reduced after heavy 3x5 squats rather than the other way around they should bp before squats.

Now if you only did a few squat singles then i can see it being no problem. But heavy volume on the squat is not the same.

[Bragason]

I have found that fooling around for a couple of minutes before benching helps.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Since alot of people will have their ability to bp reduced after heavy 3x5 squats rather than the other way around they should bp before squats.

I haven't found that to be the case.

[sking1001]

Thanks, Rip. That's a good point. We just had a talk about that, but I didn't make the connection to him that maybe that's why he's "pretty much dead."

That's right, Brodie. The intermediate is about to move to a split, but the other is still a novice. He's only squatting 185 for his 3x5 right now as it is. We just had a long conversation the other day when the order of exercise issue came up, because this is also the case of someone who made some impatient decisions on his own without checking with me. He deviated from the program, and was also deadlifting every other day. So I had to brow-beat him into cutting back to 3 days per week. I told him if he just had to do something on off-days, he could push the prowler, but not to go crazy on it. I totally remember (and long for) that novice stage where you just can't wait to get back at it. However, I told him that it won't be long until he looks forward to his rest days, which will come when he actually learns what intensity is.....and get's strong.

[lou t]

Sorry I posted this on facebook (then deleted it) before I realized #AskRip was for non-lifting related questions. It's been a while since I've encountered this, so I totally forgot to ask you during the seminar last weekend:

I have had a couple trainees, one novice, one intermediate, ask the same question, "Is it okay if I bench before squatting, because I'm too tired after squatting?" When I told them no, they respond with, "But I can't bench as much after I squat. I'm pretty much dead." After passing them the tissues and explaining that training is supposed to be hard, I tell them the squat should have the higher priority, because we can use more weight. Basically if you can't bench as much after squatting, just get stronger and you will bench more. If fatigue is an issue, I would rather them sacrifice weight on the bar with the bench vs the squat.

I think I've ask other coaches in the past, and some don't think it's that important, so am I being to dogmatic? If you were asked this question, what would your answer be?

This may seem mean or obnoxious on my part but come one, how much squatting are they doing that they're wiped out?

It sounds to me like one of two things; poor physical conditioning or poor mental conditioning or both....that would make 3 things...

[Bill Been]

For what little it's worth: I'm slogging through the final stages of the novice LP on the press. I got 5,2,3 one session and 5,4,3 the next and decided one last Herculean effort might get it done on Try 3, so I slept like a Boss, ate like a Boss, and made the Command Decision to move the press ahead of my squats because those failed sessions had followed PR squat days. I warmed up thoroughly on the C2 and channeling every bit of Campitelli™ - trained power, I cranked out ... 4 reps. Ashamed, I hung myself from the rafters. I got better, but learned that the intensity of my 5x3 squats was not robbing my press.

[Tom Campitelli]

I warmed up thoroughly on the C2 and channeling every bit of Campitelli™ - trained power, I cranked out ... 4 reps. Ashamed, I hung myself from the rafters. I got better, but learned that the intensity of my 5x3 squats was not robbing my press.

I like that my name is associated with missing reps. This is as it should be.