Weak row

[Mirat]

Hey guys,
My bent over row (off the floor , without torso movement) is extremely weak , Can't figure out why.
Here are my stats :
Weight : 175lbs
Height : 5'9"
Age : 20yo
Deadlift : 445x1
Bench : 245x5
Press : 180x1
Row : 135x8
Chins : 12-14

Anyone explain why such a disparity ? Should i be focusing on brining my bent over row up ?

[Adam Skillin]

Are you doing them wrong?

[Mirat]

@mgilchrest :
For a good 3 years but never consistently. I always thought that they would increase as a side effect of deadlifts , the same way the incline bench/dips increases when your flat bench does.
Now that they are so weak , I'm thinking they might be indicative of some severe muscle imbalance.

@ Adam Skillin: Bar is on the floor , over my toes approx. I bend over with a neutral back (as if i was going to deadlift it , except the bar isn't over the midfoot). When I start the pull , the only thing that is moving is my arms , except maybe in the last few reps when I use my lower back a little bit.

[Adam Skillin]

I'm thinking they might be indicative of some severe muscle imbalance.

I meant "where's the video" but I'll bite. What does the book say about rows and how does what you're doing deviate?

Also, what muscle "imbalance" could you possibly have if you have a respectable deadlift and chin-up that would cause weak barbell rows? It's clearly the form issue. As far as I'm concerned, there simply isn't a muscle in the chain that could be weak enough to preclude decent rows but allow the rest.

[Mirat]

I know that Rip says : my opinion is fuck rows , wait till you deadlift 500lbs and then you'll have your own opinion on the subject.
The book considers rows as an assistance exercise , I get it , but I (no longer) consider SS as the holy bible of lifting but it's definitely a great book IMO.
I've got a 2 months old video where i was doing them from a dead hang (without putting the bar on the floor) I was actually struggling with something like 120 pounds !
https://www.dropbox.com/s/0yme4xbknq...03.08.mp4?dl=0
I no longer do them like that though.
I find it most difficult to do the last two inches of the movement.
I was thinking that some smaller upper back muscles (rhomboids are "maybe" underdeveloped)

[Mirat]

The lack of velocity might explain why I have a hard time squeezing at the top , since the bar has little momentum from the bottom , which is a more mechanically advantageous position to pull from. But that velocity needs to be generated without resorting to my lower back , right ?

[Mirat]

I'm doing rows mainly to get a bigger deadlift/bench , but also for back/arms hypertrophy.
I see that Ed Coan does them with quite a bit of help from the lower back.

[Mirat]

Dat back tho

[silachoo]

The guys at ST - I wish I had their life.

[Darkroman]

"Fuck rows" is something I personally disagree with. You could definitely have a decent bench and deadlift (well ok 245 bench and 445 deadlift aren't huge, but your row shouldn't be under 175 for reps at that rate). One thing to note is don't strive for a 1:1 ratio on the bench and row. Mechanics are far too different, and you don't have pecs on your back. In any case, rows can help you get an awesome back and work the rhomboids, mid traps, and rear delts that the deadlift, and chin-ups/pull-ups don't hit hard enough when you've been lifting for a while and are out of the novice phase.

In my experience, a double progression approach works best. 3 sets of 10-12 reps (sets of 5 on the row would have the weight up way too heavy). Start at a weight you can definitely do. Work your way up to 12 reps across all 3 sets, increase by 5lbs, repeat. You can choose any row variation you want, but TRY not to cheat on form with the rows. If you do naturally, just let it. Do not cheat on purpose. If it happens too often, then you're not allowed to progress until it is a bit more strict. That you have to gauge for yourself.