best time to cut?

[m_sporkboy]

I'm 46, male, 192lbs, 28% body fat by DEXA.

I've been lifting for about 1.5 years, having put on 13lbs of muscle, lost 1.5lbs of fat in the last year (DEXA). So I went from 31% to 28% without losing any fat, and I'm getting tired of the spare tire.

After recently switching (long overdue) to intermediate programming, and making progress on the lifts, I'm thinking about doing a cut.

Do you think there is a "good" time to do it? Should I:

Just eat less, try to maintain strength while I cut, and just do it whenever?
Wait until current programming stops working and make changes then?
Some other strategy?

I'm not really in a hurry; I've been enjoying getting bigger and stronger, but it's kinda something I feel like I need to take care of.

If it matters: Squat 3x320, dead 3x305, bench 190, press 120ish.

[Jordan Feigenbaum]

I think once the easy improvements in strength stop happening on intermediate programming, i.e. you're not making regular weekly strength gainzZz then that would be a reasonable time.

[m_sporkboy]

Thanks, that makes sense. I a, guessing you've got a keyboard shortcut for typing gainzZz? .

[Tiedemies]

I don't want to highjack, but I am very close to the demographic and numbers (40y, bw 190lbs 6'1, 320/360/200/140). I've been on 531 for 15 weeks and gainzZz have tapered down. BF seems to go up if I try to gain by eating more, progress is, what I might call "glacial". Gut is getting bigger. So, my question might benefit OP when his lifts stall.

So, I was thinking I will do a bit of a cut/recomp at the turn of the year. I am guessing my BF is a bit lower than OPs but I also feel it is hard to gain further without putting significant fat, especially my gut seems to grow. I think my weight is on the low side, and I am feeling like this may be a vanity-thing (I used to be very very skinny until I started DTP) and that I am fooling myself. But: Let's say I took down my BF to close to single digits (like it used to be), what is reasonable to expect? I think my numbers are still low enough so that I can probably maintain, if not gain, strength while cutting, but am I fooling myself? I know 531 is more of an advanced program, I switched to it from TM after a couple of rounds because TM was simply killing me no matter how much I ate.

[Jordan Feigenbaum]

I don't want to highjack, but I am very close to the demographic and numbers (40y, bw 190lbs 6'1, 320/360/200/140). I've been on 531 for 15 weeks and gainzZz have tapered down. BF seems to go up if I try to gain by eating more, progress is, what I might call "glacial". Gut is getting bigger. So, my question might benefit OP when his lifts stall.

So, I was thinking I will do a bit of a cut/recomp at the turn of the year. I am guessing my BF is a bit lower than OPs but I also feel it is hard to gain further without putting significant fat, especially my gut seems to grow. I think my weight is on the low side, and I am feeling like this may be a vanity-thing (I used to be very very skinny until I started DTP) and that I am fooling myself. But: Let's say I took down my BF to close to single digits (like it used to be), what is reasonable to expect? I think my numbers are still low enough so that I can probably maintain, if not gain, strength while cutting, but am I fooling myself? I know 531 is more of an advanced program, I switched to it from TM after a couple of rounds because TM was simply killing me no matter how much I ate.

I think at single digit body fat you'll have a significantly lower squat, bench, and press and maybe a little less deadlift. I think your programming is not able to take advantage of any additional fueling, as evidenced by the progress so far on it. I really don't like 5/3/1 at all unless someone is much, much older and even then...

[Tiedemies]

I think at single digit body fat you'll have a significantly lower squat, bench, and press and maybe a little less deadlift. I think your programming is not able to take advantage of any additional fueling, as evidenced by the progress so far on it. I really don't like 5/3/1 at all unless someone is much, much older and even then...

Yes, of course, it makes sense now that you mention it. I'd like to point out that I said "close to single digits", meaning, not necessarily under 10%, but definitely the ball-park would be to cut about 10% BF off. I am approaching 200, and I think roughly on the margin the muscle gain/fat gain ratio has been 40/60, assuming I started at 150lbs with ~10%BF and I'm now at 195lbs at ~20%. If I understand your comment about not taking advantage of additional fueling in programming, the ratio could have been better if I used different programming.

There is the thing that until a few weeks ago, I was simply chugging in the calories in a rather unplanned manner. I did make sure the calories total was a good surplus and that protein totals were at ~200g, but meal timing during the day was off (hyouuge dinners, a lot of unproductive snacking between lectures). After some of the discussions here and looking more closely at your posts, I took the same calorie/protein composition but made sure I eat every ~4hrs and made sure leucine content was high in each meal. This has been going on properly only for about 2 weeks now, so there's another thing to consider before changing anything.

So I'll keep on 531 for one more cycle. I changed the template a bit so that I treat every 531 main lift as a "heavy" or "intensity" lift, and then I cycle through similar lifts as assistances to make up for the volume for the rest of the week. Basically, upped the volume to see if the gainzZz-ratio would be better. If not, well, new year's is a nice place to try something new. But I will postpone the cut for another 3 months or so. Makes more sense to do it before summer anyways, so that I can still pull off going shirtless... (Out here in the arctic have like two weeks year when you can hit the beach, so I only have to hit that narrow window at mid-July-early August... )

Thanks.
-H.

Thanks.

[crookedfinger]

I don't want to highjack, but I am very close to the demographic and numbers (40y, bw 190lbs 6'1, 320/360/200/140). I've been on 531 for 15 weeks and gainzZz have tapered down. BF seems to go up if I try to gain by eating more, progress is, what I might call "glacial". Gut is getting bigger. So, my question might benefit OP when his lifts stall.

So, I was thinking I will do a bit of a cut/recomp at the turn of the year. I am guessing my BF is a bit lower than OPs but I also feel it is hard to gain further without putting significant fat, especially my gut seems to grow. I think my weight is on the low side, and I am feeling like this may be a vanity-thing (I used to be very very skinny until I started DTP) and that I am fooling myself. But: Let's say I took down my BF to close to single digits (like it used to be), what is reasonable to expect? I think my numbers are still low enough so that I can probably maintain, if not gain, strength while cutting, but am I fooling myself? I know 531 is more of an advanced program, I switched to it from TM after a couple of rounds because TM was simply killing me no matter how much I ate.

This is probably a volume problem - not enough. Not sure what version of 531 you are running, but would guess you need more volume. Both on your 531 days and probably an extra day of squatting, benching and pressing.

Also, 6'1" and 190 is a little light to be strong.

Priorities, you know?

[Tiedemies]

This is probably a volume problem - not enough. Not sure what version of 531 you are running, but would guess you need more volume. Both on your 531 days and probably an extra day of squatting, benching and pressing.

Also, 6'1" and 190 is a little light to be strong.

Priorities, you know?

Yea, I know. Anyhoo, mine seems now more a programming issue than nutrition. I added an extra squat day and cycling through "medium" pressing days etc, the volume went up so I'll give it a shot. Alternative would be to go back to 4-day TM but like I said the progression and the volume were hammering me down even on the barebones version I tried for two months. No amount of eating and sleeping seemed enough. I will try to hit the "sweet spot" in terms of volume. Thanks both you. And sorry for the hijack...