Program question and lower back weakness

[Jamie J. Skibicki]

I just switched to a texas method from SS, and I"m having problems with my lower back in general and deadlift in particular.

My program is as follows

monday

squat 5x5
press (+ 1 set of push ups)/bench (4x15 db presses, light)5x5
clean and jerk (singles every minute, start at 60%, add 3% each time)

Wednesday
squat 2x5 (80% of monday)
bench/press (70% of 5rm max)
snatch (singles every minute, start at 60%, add 3% each time)

Friday
squat 5 rm
press(+ 1 set up push ups)/ bench (4x15 db presses light) 5rm
Deadlift 5rm


The problem is I keep stalling on the deadlift and deadlift only. The weak link seems to be my lower back. I squatted 380 x4 today (depth was good, highest was an inch below parallel) and I could only pull 405 x2.

I have a few questions
is there anything inherently wrong with this program?
are there assistance excersizes I should be doing that I'm not? If so, what are they and where would put them?

[Tom Campitelli]

Since someone will probably ask, are you using a belt? Also, are you having back pain, or do you have a history of back injuries?

You are beyond my level of training advancement (my next deadlift work set is 375), so take what I say next with a big grain of salt. You have an Oly focus, but speed sets starting light for the C&J might not be what you want. Perhaps working a related pulling motion like power cleans for 5x3 for sets across would help a bit to nudge the deads higher. Deadlifting once a week may be a little too much to handle, too.

[Tom Campitelli]

As far as assistance exercises go weighted hip extensions, glute/ham raises, and perhaps planks (for giggles) might provide some needed lower back work.

[nisora33]

Jamie, have you considered that it may be time to switch to every other week for the deadlift? You can try alternating weeks where you do deadlifts with weeks where you do an assistance exercise instead. You also might consider switching your snatch work to Friday, when you'll have two full days for recovery from them, and placing the deadlift on Wednesday. Some iterations of the Texas method place deads on Wednesday even though it is technically a "light" day.

-Stacey

[zepled37]

Not to be an ass, but if you did 380x4 and you were supposed to do 5 reps then maybe you are having issues on more than just the deadlift? Of course, I understand that this could just be a one day issue with the squat. How long have you been on TM program?

On with your questions...to me it doesn't seem like there is anything major wrong with your program though the singles every minute is different. As someone else said, maybe just 5 sets of 3 on cleans would help. Not sure how much it impacts your deadlift specifically, but I don't see any pull-ups/chin-ups in your program either. Not sure about how you are doing the dumbbell presses either.

FWIW, I'm fairly close to your strength level, am also doing Texas Method programming and also feel I have a low back weakness for my deadlift. I think I've had some success adding round back good mornings in as an assistance exercise on Wednesdays. I did these very light (worked up from 95lbs to 135lbs) for 3 sets of 10 but they seemed to help. Now, I admit I just switched to back extensions this week instead, but it was mostly for mental reasons. I did the good mornings for about 6 weeks.

Some other thoughts...Mentioned already, but I feel like the power cleans and deadlifts work well together so you really might want to consider doing the normal cleans progression (3x5sets). Also, if you just switched to TM programming, maybe you started out too high in weight? It might take a little while to get used to the extra volume. I started out I think too light when I switched to it, but I do believe that it might have helped in the end because I don't feel as wiped out from 5 sets now as I did from 3 sets before (I'm still using a little less weight, but still...)

Last thought...I alternate 5 reps one week and 3 reps the next on the squat and deadlift to avoid staleness and for a psychological lift. I don't alternate press and bench press reps right now because alternating these lifts on their own seems to do the trick and if I did, then it would be like 4 weeks until I got back to the same lift with the same reps.

Don't know if that helps, but it was long!!!!!

[quadancer]

With lower back problems/weaknesses I addressed them with heavy SLDL's and weighted hypers. This worked well for my squats, as my deads were allready up to 475x1 - I just got a 425 double out of SLDL's the other day, and I think that's about where they should be. This will make me feel much more confident in squats sunday, doing work sets of 325x6x4.

[Jamie J. Skibicki]

I use a belt for the squats on friday, and thats it. I don't have pain or back problems, but my back is where I feel the lift failed; I couldn't keep the extension.

THe pushups and light DB presses were Gant's suggestion.

I did only get 4 for the squat, but I got 5 with 375 the week before, which is much better than going from 405 x3 to 405x2 the next week for deads. And the failure in the squat is that I didn't attempt the 5th rep due to my back feeling shaky.

Quad dancer, where would you put SLDL into this program? Move snatches to friday, cleans to wednesday and the SLDL on monday. 3 set 8-10?

ZepLed, how do you do a round back good morning? I would worried about the bar rolling forward off my neck.

[Sgsolberg]

It seems to me that lower back weakness is generally a failure of the abs to support from the anterior of the spine. Perhaps a session or two of backoff with some dedicated strength training for the abdominals is in order. I like 3x8 weighted situps on a decline bench with a pause of 2-3 seconds at the bottom (not all the way down, just to paralell *sp?). I find that when I am faithful to doing these, my back feels much better. YMMV.

[lastditch]

Jamie
you could alternate D/Ls and SLDLs week to week. For what its worth I found that doing high volume SLDLs with a light weight on alternate weeks helped my lower back. Doing 5sets of 10reps at bewtween 50-60% of my 5RM worked for me.

[Jamie J. Skibicki]

Can't forget the abs, good call.

I'm not sure if I'm ready to deadlift once every 2 weeks, we'll see though.

Hey, we just had good conversion about abs, lower back, trunk rigidity and how to train and now one used the "c" word. Good job everyone.