Troubles in getting stronger as a big guy

[zung]

Hello.

I will appreciate if any of the coaches will read my story and provide their valuable insight.

I have a very hard time getting strong as an adult male in his twenties. Despite my best efforts I have an unusual strength to mass ratio. Being the weakest man out of those who train seriously in my area constantly kills my self esteem but does wonders to fuel my obsession of getting stronger.

I have always been a chubby kid when growing up, also the slowest and the weakest child compared to my peers. This fact made me want to get stronger since I hit puberty, but it has taken me 10 years to finally encounter The Program. I ran it two times already.

First for 9 continuous months with sub-par technique and not optimal sleeping habits. After I bought SS 3rd edition and PP 2nd edition and read them carefully a few times, I restarted the program for another 5 months. I have gotten my technique on all lifts as close as possible to textbook. I ate through my sticking points with as much food as my weak stomach could process, occasionally getting sick from overeating. I have slept without an alarm clock giving my body as much sleep as it wanted. I have meticulously followed loading and de-loading procedures described in Practical Programming. Despite my much improved (but not perfect) execution of the program, I have only improved my best lifts by 10%, but I was 10% heavier as well.

I was disappointed in my self and tried a couple of intermediate programs for another month without much success. Then to keep interest in training I decided to compete in a local weightlifting meet. I taught myself how to do a pretty decent split snatch and clean & jerk. In hindsight it was not the brightest idea, since I often had various joint aches while doing the program. Fast lifts made my joints feel stronger and pain free when I started, but after three months as weights increased damage started to accumulate and forced me to stop due to pain.

Almost all the joints in my body now make cracking noises since olympic lifting. All my lifts have decreased by 30%. Some workouts when I try to squat I develop a mild knee pain when reaching depth and then am forced to skip squats for a couple of workouts to let it heal. I use knee sleeves and keep my knees warm, when my knees are beat up I tried using light wraps but it does not remove the pain. At this point I am far away from my goal of getting strong and maybe farther away than I have ever been.

I want to continue training but I might be an unusual case and I don't want to repeat any mistakes I've made. If any of you have encountered anyone like me or have any ideas what might be wrong with me I would love to hear from you.

Below I will provide as much data as I possibly can so you can get a better understanding of my situation.

Thank you.


Data

Age - 26
Height - 6 feet 1 inch (186 cm)
Weight - 225 lb (102 kg)
Bodyfat - 28% based on calipers (fat is very distributed across all my limbs, not all in my gut)

Standing vertical jump - 20 inches
Morning total testosterone - 803 ng/dl

Lift progression

1st run of SS in 2012
Bodyweight 187 lb -> 211 lb
Squat 3x5 65 lb -> 201 lb
Press 1.0 3x5 44 lb -> 91 lb
Bench 3x5 77 lb -> 132 lb
Deadlift 1x5 132 lb -> 264 lb
Power Clean 5x3 91 lb -> 121 lb

2nd run of SS in 2015
Bodyweight 205 lb -> 233 lb
Squat 3x5 88 lb -> 215 lb
Press 2.0 3x5 55 lb -> 94 lb
Bench 3x5 77 lb -> 140 lb
Deadlift 1x5 132 lb -> 275 lb
Power Clean 5x3 91 lb -> 132 lb

Olympic lifting
Split Snatch 1RM 50 kg (110 lb)
Power Clean 1RM 65 kg (143 lb)
Split Jerk 1RM 62 kg (137 lb)
Clean&Jerk 1RM 62 kg (137 lb)
Front Squat 3RM 65 kg (143 lb)

[Matt Reynolds]

Do you have ANY videos of your lifting?

You gained some significant bodyweight and strength both times doing SS. My guess is a) You aren't performing the lifts correctly, or b) you aren't doing the program (but you say you are, or c) You don't know how to properly strain through heavy weights.

I'd like to see some so we can rule out A and C.

Matt

[zung]

Thanks for helping Matt.

I have indeed made significant progress on the program. In isolation I would probably be happy, but I cannot help but compare myself to others and feel like I'm too weak for my build.

I have dug through my archive and found a couple of videos that might eliminate A and C. The only problem is that by the end of SS I only took videos when I knew that my technique is breaking down, so I would film to see how bad it was.

What usually would happen is that I would come in the gym, warm-up and do the first set. Then my technique would be inconsistent: my knees would slide, my torso goes sideways, I lose back angle when standing up, I increase descent speed to increase the bounce. Then I would feel that and film the next set. If it was bad I would come in next time and try again. If same thing happened I would deload to a weight I can do with a consistent technique and then progress from there. This pattern would repeat many times in the last 2 months of SS.


Here is me trying to finish my third set at all costs - https://vimeo.com/149558657

Here is me ramping back up after one of the many deloads and already the weight is feeling much heavier than I want to - https://vimeo.com/149558659

Here I am trying the same weight after a fourth deload and still my low back is giving out at this weight, you can see the disappointment in my face - https://vimeo.com/149558658


Since my joint problems were increased, now every time I train I do not allow any technique breakage, in the squat I descend slowly and do not allow any knee slide at the bottom.

Press and bench stalled almost at the same time but they are relatively lower because of my long arms. Also after 7 months of training I finally achieved a feat of doing a single chin-up.

[Matt Reynolds]

If I could say this as carefully as possible so as to not hurt your feelings....it appears to me that your primary problem is a mental toughness issue. Ie - stop being a pussy.

First off, the top video of your squat is NOWHERE NEAR a Starting Strength Squat - you are way too deep, that's causing your lower back to round, your knees to slide forward, you are bouncing off your knees, the weight is forward of the midfoot, etc etc.

It's pretty clear that A) You need a coach - do you live the in US? I get a feeling that the answer is no. or B) You need to utilize form checks as often as possible to make sure that you are moving in the right direction in regards to form. Then C) You need someone who is going to tell at you and not allow you to walk out of them gym when it doesn't feel very good 2 warm-up sets in.

[zung]

Sincerely, thank you Matt.

A) The closest coach is 3 hours flight away, cannot afford it right now.

B) Does this recent squat looks like what you teach or am I missing something?
https://vimeo.com/149646939

C) I don't mind you labeling me a pussy, I will not try to change your mind. In response to point C - I always attempted my work sets and often with DOMS, through joint pain, to failure or with the form you witnessed just to get my reps in.

I am already of the impression that you think that I just did not DFTP. I always strived to follow it as closely as my knowledge permitted and this time I will do it again, just better than before.

[Kakarot]

Firstly, HOLY FUCKING COW UDDERS is that squat deep! I feel like someone cued you "arse to China!". No wonder you have joint pain with those knees sliding forward.

Okay jokes aside, I would like to refer the OP to this great post, which completely changed the way I thought about and approached training. You need to read it and watch the video's a minimum of 10 times, EACH! You also need to play CT Fletcher/some metal in the background every time your train. Manda-fucking-tory!

http://startingstrength.com/resource...539-heavy.html

I, along with many others on here have I'm sure set PR's on the days where we felt like shit. If you're serious about training/getting stronger then work on changing your mindset.

Also, stop comparing yourself to others, focus on yourself, YOUR JOURNEY! You will get there I promise you, just don't be defeated by your own self doubt. We can help you but at the end of the day it's your decision.

You would greatly benefit from a coach but here's my 2 pence (coaches will weigh in if my assumptions/comments are off).

Firstly your squat, Matt has already outlined the various issues:

You're relaxing waaaaaay too much at the bottom, which is causing a domino effect of issues. The squat is not a holiday!

Try the cue up, up, up! Or drive up hard! Theses cues are useful in helping a trainee to tighten up at the bottom by anticipating the drive up, instead of just thinking about going down/descending.

Deadlift

You didn't film the full setup but from what I can see you're able to set your back in extension well, there's still room for a bit more "squooze". You're just not able to hold it as well (watch your upper/thoraic spine the second the bar leave the ground).

Are you thinking about pulling the bar? I think you would do better thinking about the deadlift as a push instead, cue "push the Earth away".

Also, your holding the bar at the top for a bit longer than necessary and then you're leaning back slightly. I think you're doing this to confirm you've "locked out" the rep, just stand up with straight legs and your chest up, then set the bar down immediately, otherwise you're wasting gas for the next rep.

[Matt Reynolds]

Your squats are still too deep - especially after number 1 - they progressively get deeper and "sloppier." You can tell you are relaxing your low back/hamstrings as well as leading with the chest.

Try pointing your nipples at the floor and look down on the floor a little closer to your body than you are currently looking.

Regardless, the weight still isn't remotely heavy, even if the form is still jacked up a bit.

[anniemichael]

I have always been a chubby kid when growing up, also the slowest and the weakest child compared to my peers. This fact made me want to get stronger since I hit puberty

OP -- thought my circumstances are different (namely, I'm a woman), I want to chime in here. I was not athletic at all as a kid. I was a dancer, but come puberty I quit, and I did everything in my power to get out of PE, etc. When I first picked up a barbell it was...bad news. Couldn't squat the bar, etc. I did get stronger, but in my mind I felt like I went from "ridiculously weak" to "normal person weak". I do believe that when I first started, I wasn't just highly detrained...I was never trained in the first place. I just never had established any neuromuscular pathways for exertion, which meant that a lot of what I had to learn was how to exert, fully.

Obviously you have some form issues to correct. I also think that you just need to accept that you are starting out not just detrained, but completely untrained. Perhaps a semantic difference, but you know what I mean. You are just, at baseline, weak. So am I. That's why we both found the program. Stop comparing yourself to others (who might have played high school football) and get back to business. Learn how to strain correctly. This shit hurts.

SSCs -- I'm actually curious if, given his history and starting point and difficulties, you'd recommend any of the typically "female-specific" modifications (5x3 instead of 3x5, etc.). Would you ever do something like that?

[zung]

Thanks guys for your help, I really needed it. I'll take your advice to heart. This time I'll get my technique absolutely perfect and get strong.