Squat form check, bulging lumbar disc

[robertdawson]

Hello,
I am trying to get back into heavy training after a lower back injury, but would like to know how my form was in my prime right before I got hurt. This was at 5'4", 150 lbs., around 10% BF. This was my 5RM.
https://youtu.be/5GITtW8MzV8?t=33

It is quite obvious that on the last rep it turns into a good-morning squat, but is this acceptable on the last rep of a 5RM? Shifting my body this way means I'm quad dominant and should therefore do RDLs or some other posterior chain accessory to fix this imbalance and keep a more upright posture even on a near-failure rep, right?

As far as my disc injury is concerned, I found your useful advice in this thread:
http://startingstrength.com/resource...sc-injury.html
In my particular case, the MRI said "showing early degenerative signs with multiple disc bulges". I get no pain while lifting, but mild pain afterwards. However, if I put more than 155 on the bar (3x8x195 would probably be my work sets these days) I get the same old buttock, quad and foot partial numbness (feels like my leg is half-asleep in multiple places). I'm scared to death of cauda equina syndrome or permanent damage but I want to lift heavy again, I've always wanted a 400 squat. If I was your trainee would you have me squat and/or deadlift with these symptoms, or only do as much weight as I can without causing these symptoms? I've got a visit with the orthopedic surgeon soon and I just know he is going to say not to do lower body exercises anymore...

Thanks so much.

[Steve Hill]

Hello,
I am trying to get back into heavy training after a lower back injury, but would like to know how my form was in my prime right before I got hurt. This was at 5'4", 150 lbs., around 10% BF. This was my 5RM.
https://youtu.be/5GITtW8MzV8?t=33

They are too deep and your head is not down. Beyond that, what you did 5 years ago is irrelevant. We are barbell coaches, not historians. What are you doing today?

It is quite obvious that on the last rep it turns into a good-morning squat, but is this acceptable on the last rep of a 5RM?

As a 5 RM some form breakdown is expected and acceptable. These are not horrible, except for the above-mentioned comments, which is all you're going to get on a 5 year old video.

Shifting my body this way means I'm quad dominant and should therefore do RDLs or some other posterior chain accessory to fix this imbalance and keep a more upright posture even on a near-failure rep, right?

It is quite obvious to me that you don't understand basic mechanics. Beyond that, when have we EVER prescribed accessory exercises, especially to under-weight novices, when the correct thing to do is to squat at a weight in which you can control the lift properly and then increase the weight in increments from that weight? You've been a member here, what, 7 years, have a very odd posting history, and you've allegedly read SS:BBT. How can you not know this?

As far as my disc injury is concerned, I found your useful advice in this thread:
http://startingstrength.com/resource...sc-injury.html
In my particular case, the MRI said "showing early degenerative signs with multiple disc bulges". I get no pain while lifting, but mild pain afterwards. However, if I put more than 155 on the bar (3x8x195 would probably be my work sets these days) I get the same old buttock, quad and foot partial numbness (feels like my leg is half-asleep in multiple places). I'm scared to death of cauda equina syndrome or permanent damage but I want to lift heavy again, I've always wanted a 400 squat. If I was your trainee would you have me squat and/or deadlift with these symptoms, or only do as much weight as I can without causing these symptoms? I've got a visit with the orthopedic surgeon soon and I just know he is going to say not to do lower body exercises anymore...

Thanks so much.

The thread you link seems to have everything in it that I would have told you. Glad you found it helpful - although, apparently not helpful enough to actually do something. Anyway, we have three doctors on our staff, and I am not one of them. Therefore, I won't give you medical advice over the internet, and I feel pretty comfortable in saying that neither will any of them. What I would tell my trainee is that he needs to go see a doctor he trusts, assess the risk of continued training, and then make up his own mind. I might point him at the dozens of message threads in these forums discussing exactly this problem and how others addressed it and what their outcomes were, and then tell him to make up his own mind.

[robertdawson]

"They are too deep and your head is not down. Beyond that, what you did 5 years ago is irrelevant. We are barbell coaches, not historians. What are you doing today?"
How much farther beyond the "hip crease right below parallel" was I going? Ok, not looking down at an angle, bad, got it.

"As a 5 RM some form breakdown is expected and acceptable. These are not horrible, except for the above-mentioned comments, which is all you're going to get on a 5 year old video."
That's plenty of feedback, thank you.

"It is quite obvious to me that you don't understand basic mechanics. Beyond that, when have we EVER prescribed accessory exercises, especially to under-weight novices, when the correct thing to do is to squat at a weight in which you can control the lift properly and then increase the weight in increments from that weight? You've been a member here, what, 7 years, have a very odd posting history, and you've allegedly read SS:BBT. How can you not know this?"
Could you please explain, point me to a thread or threads, or a search query explaining the basic mechanics I am failing to grasp with that statement? I thought there were accessory exercises built into the program, see here: FAQ:The Lifts - Starting Strength Wiki - Wikia or that not an official site affiliated with your group? I don't understand why my posting history is under discussion in every thread of mine. So I have asked a lot of questions, is that really so bad? I have read the book but I haven't memorized it by heart.

"The thread you link seems to have everything in it that I would have told you. Glad you found it helpful - although, apparently not helpful enough to actually do something. Anyway, we have three doctors on our staff, and I am not one of them. Therefore, I won't give you medical advice over the internet, and I feel pretty comfortable in saying that neither will any of them. What I would tell my trainee is that he needs to go see a doctor he trusts, assess the risk of continued training, and then make up his own mind. I might point him at the dozens of message threads in these forums discussing exactly this problem and how others addressed it and what their outcomes were, and then tell him to make up his own mind."
What is the risk of continued training then? Or is that something I have to rely on the doctor for? Could you please point me to the dozens of message threads describing this exact problem? I have not been able to find them by searching through the forums. I have found plenty of threads discussing people lifting with herniated or bulging discs that caused pain but have not seen any where neurological-like symptoms were part of the tale.

[Steve Hill]

How much farther beyond the "hip crease right below parallel" was I going? Ok, not looking down at an angle, bad, got it.

Somewhere between 7 and 12 inches. Again, you want serious commentary beyond what I gave you, show me a recent squat.

Could you please explain, point me to a thread or threads, or a search query explaining the basic mechanics I am failing to grasp with that statement? I thought there were accessory exercises built into the program, see here: FAQ:The Lifts - Starting Strength Wiki - Wikia or that not an official site affiliated with your group? I don't understand why my posting history is under discussion in every thread of mine. So I have asked a lot of questions, is that really so bad? I have read the book but I haven't memorized it by heart.

I have no idea why you think that the wiki site is an "official" site. It says right on the intro page that it was written by someone else, using information they interpreted (my word) from SS:BBT and PPfST. The BOOK is the official word. THIS is the official site. You have read the book, but failed to understand it. You should read it again. So: Please tell me where WE *EVER* prescribe accessory exercises, especially for a novice?

What is the risk of continued training then? Or is that something I have to rely on the doctor for?

Anything in a range between a return to full normal health and death. Or you can ask your doctor. He will also give you a range of possible outcomes and then YOU will have to decide if lifting is worth it. Decisions. Part of Adulting.

Could you please point me to the dozens of message threads describing this exact problem? I have not been able to find them by searching through the forums. I have found plenty of threads discussing people lifting with herniated or bulging discs that caused pain but have not seen any where neurological-like symptoms were part of the tale.

What am I? Your research assistant? And I should find someone suffering from your exact (undiagnosed) imaginary problem? Please. Google is your friend. For instance: A simple one-word search turns up hundreds of results. Wowsers.

[robertdawson]

I've never been anything on this board if not polite, so I don't understand why you and everyone else on this board is so hostile. You'd think I started a thread every hour calling Rip, you and the rest of the coaches idiots the way I'm being treated. I'm not the only person on the board who has asked questions that could be answered by re-reading the book or by those that don't fully understand everything about training. That is why I'm asking the board, because I don't know.

"What am I? Your research assistant? And I should find someone suffering from your exact (undiagnosed) imaginary problem? Please. Google is your friend. For instance: A simple one-word search turns up hundreds of results. Wowsers."
I've been nothing but polite so far and I'm not interested in arguing with you.
First of all, I didn't know that neuropathy was the term for what I'm experiencing. Second of all, no I don't expect you or anyone to find an issue exactly like mine, but if I am told that there are dozens of threads that are similar to my issue I would expect to find one that included neuropathy along a lower back injury. Your google search there showed nothing close to that, the majority of the threads talking about elderly trainees or people with diabetes. Third of all, the issue was diagnosed as a bulging disc four years ago. Fourth of all, it is rude, to say the absolute least, to claim someone's issue is "imaginary" especially since you said that you or nobody else is going to provide medical advice. Fifth of all, medical and/or training advice/recommendations are provided on the board all the time.

Please quit fussing at me over everything and just answer my questions. You've commented on my form, and I appreciate it. All I want to know, and that nobody is can or is willing to provide an answer to is: has anybody had a disc injury with neuropathy aggravated by training that was able to continue training, and if so, how?

[Mark Rippetoe]

Bob here is just a straight-up dumbass. This:

The thread you link seems to have everything in it that I would have told you. Glad you found it helpful - although, apparently not helpful enough to actually do something. Anyway, we have three doctors on our staff, and I am not one of them. Therefore, I won't give you medical advice over the internet, and I feel pretty comfortable in saying that neither will any of them. What I would tell my trainee is that he needs to go see a doctor he trusts, assess the risk of continued training, and then make up his own mind. I might point him at the dozens of message threads in these forums discussing exactly this problem and how others addressed it and what their outcomes were, and then tell him to make up his own mind.

pretty much says what needs to be said, and I think Bob here owes Steve a couple hundred dollars for wasting his time.

Bob, it's not that you're impolite. It's that you've been posting stupid shit here for many years, have failed to read anything with any level of comprehension during that time, and have a demanding attitude that pisses us off.

[mrflibble]

I've never been anything on this board if not polite

Short memory?

Contribute to the thread or fuck off.

[robertdawson]

One gets tired of being polite for years after people are repeatedly smartasses, etc.

[Steve Hill]

Starting Strength: Article

[CimmerianInTraining]

One gets tired of being polite for years after people are repeatedly smartasses, etc.

Sorry that you had a bad experience. I'm sure that Rip will refund every penny you've paid in forum membership dues.