Body By Science

[Keith Burnett]

I have looked around the forum....for Rip articles or commentaries on Body By Science and the McGuff formula for strength gains. I am sure it's somewhere.....and could use a link or pointer.

thanks

[Adam Skillin]

I'm not sure you're going to find anything where he addresses BBS/McGuff directly, but you might find these interesting:

https://startingstrength.com/article...d_rippetoe.pdf

Barbells vs Machines vs Everything Else | Mark Rippetoe

[JohnW]

I read Body by Science about 7 years ago and tried a dozen or so workouts as recommended. Not much happened.
I found it an excellent exercise to consider why most of it is either incorrect or suboptimal.
It is, of course, a better option than many ways of exercising.

[Keith Burnett]

I read BBS a number of years ago and it caught my fancy. I tried, somewhat pathetically, to implement in my local gym and in my area there are a couple of BBS inspired facilities with coaching. I looked into it but never followed up. It just felt sort of like "fast food". I've listened to or watched a number of MCGuff lectures. As an MD...I am sympathetic to many of his views. Surprised that Rip hasn't taken it head on. Maybe just not worth it.

Thanks Gentlemen

[JohnW]

I'm sympathetic too but it's not training as promoted here. It would help an elderly or infirm person a lot more than many interventions and might even be excellent for someone with, for example, a painful rheumatological condition. I think one of its major flaws is extrapolating rehab techniques to the general and even athletic population. The studies underpinning the science are not exactly robust.
That said, Doug McGuff comes across as a decent bloke trying to do his best and his advice will almost certainly do no harm. Rip tolerates a higher risk approach for much greater performance gains.

[George Christiansen]

I can see it working for the most noobish novice folks and maybe a little longer for folks who are uber explosive, but you're not going to get much progression out of it.

[Adam Skillin]

I read BBS a number of years ago and it caught my fancy. I tried, somewhat pathetically, to implement in my local gym and in my area there are a couple of BBS inspired facilities with coaching. I looked into it but never followed up. It just felt sort of like "fast food". I've listened to or watched a number of MCGuff lectures. As an MD...I am sympathetic to many of his views. Surprised that Rip hasn't taken it head on. Maybe just not worth it.

Thanks Gentlemen

I can't speak for Rip, and I know very little about the BBS/McGuff stuff, but what I'm curious about is why Rip's opinion of such a thing interests you, when you are aware (or so easily able to make yourself aware) of his stances and analyses on pretty much every aspect of efficient and effective training for strength acquisition. I guess what I'm left wondering, Dr. Burnett, is whether there are specific claims that he could refute about the BBS model/system that haven't already been flogged to death in the Starting Strength-provided literature?

[Keith Burnett]

I can't speak for Rip, and I know very little about the BBS/McGuff stuff, but what I'm curious about is why Rip's opinion of such a thing interests you, when you are aware (or so easily able to make yourself aware) of his stances and analyses on pretty much every aspect of efficient and effective training for strength acquisition. I guess what I'm left wondering, Dr. Burnett, is whether there are specific claims that he could refute about the BBS model/system that haven't already been flogged to death in the Starting Strength-provided literature?

I am certainly in no position to speak authoritatively on the BBS model. However, it appears to be based on HIT plan and a variation of superslow. Maximum intensity.... Machines. there are probably a number of SS adherents lurking on the forums who have either dabbled or part of the temporary faithful, who could chime in.

I just remember touring a facility listed on his web site...which turns out to be one of a small chain in California. 4 or 5 machines. Something like 5 minutes of coached exercise /machine. Out in 30 minutes. Gassed.

[Mark E. Hurling]

However, it appears to be based on HIT plan and a variation of superslow. Maximum intensity.... Machines. there are probably a number of SS adherents lurking on the forums who have either dabbled or part of the temporary faithful, who could chime in.

I did around a decade of HIT. It worked pretty well for me for a while, especially if microloads are used. That said, the final rep to failure is a counterproductive premise that can burn you out quickly, injure you, and thus hold you back. Same with the limiting of rest periods between sets to up the intensity.

Superslow is a hugely bad idea. It's only a little better than yoga for getting strong. The concentration required to make those s-l-o-w concentric and eccentric portions of the movement is more of a mental challenge than a physical one. Tried it and dropped it after a couple of weeks. But it WAS a rather Zen experience.

Machines have a few uses and advantages, just not many. The most utility I got from them were the Hammer plate loaded upper back machines. Otherwise, meh.

4 or 5 machines. Something like 5 minutes of coached exercise /machine. Out in 30 minutes. Gassed.

Yep, definitely a HIT type of routine. Probably along the lines of a pulling movement in the vertical plane, a pressing movement in the horizontal plane, a pulling movement in the horizontal plane, a pressing movement in the vertical plane, and a leg press. All done for 2 or maybe 3 sequential loops with minimal to no rest between movements. A trainer named Bob Whelan in the Maryland area had a similar approach. I've done those exact routines and they do gas you in 30 minutes or so. And then you stall.

That sound about right?

[JohnW]

It's essential conditioning with a small strength component that leaves you fatigued and sore. Both components stall in 6-8 weeks even for a relative novice.
Conditioning with an exaggerated eccentric causes soreness and leaves one unable to repeat the stimulus and thus adapt to it.
Strength training with very light weights moved slowly and little rest causes fatigue to limit the set before anything but the most low level strength adaptations can take place.
Hence both stall.