Interesting. Chiyonofuji trained hard and ate that way, and he was a Man. Do you have a good recipe for chanko? But really, why would it not work?
Member
Ultimate size: Starting Strength with a Sumo diet.
Hey Mark and friends,
So I've settled in a big city, with a big gym, and I'm happy. Squat racks, pretty girls, and a ceiling high enough I can do standing presses.
Life is good.
Now, gotta get bulky.
Routine: Starting Strength, verbatim (right down to the warm up sets)
Diet:
OK, here's what I've found:
1) Sumos have more muscle mass than bodybuilders
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/j...04362/abstract
It's only the abstract, but apparently Sumos have "significantly" greater fat free muscle mass than bodybuilders.
2) Eating is anabolic. In the study involving twins, just eating, and not working out, increased lean muscle mass by one pound for every two pounds of fat.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9...?dopt=Abstract
"The mean body mass gain for the 24 subjects in the 100-d overfeeding experiment was 8.1 kg, of which 5.4 kg was fat mass increase and 2.7 kg was fat-free mass increase."
****
My goal: To become as large and strong as possible. I am not concerned about aesthetics or health at this point.
Linking the two studies suggests to me that an ideal approach may be mixing Starting Strength with a Sumo diet. Which is basically massive, clean eating, twice a day. Lunch and dinner (with naps).
Essentially, from my studies, it seems to me that size and strength is heavily dependent on weight gain. The guys with the most muscle on the planet don't even lift. So if we combine the two ...
Seems perfect.
Or am I whack?
Best,
Flux
(ps And I'll throw in a gallon of milk, for good measure)
TMPHBITEU
Interesting. Chiyonofuji trained hard and ate that way, and he was a Man. Do you have a good recipe for chanko? But really, why would it not work?
Member
What's also interesting is that you can become much fatter without becoming much stronger on your lifts. Not a jab at you, Flux, but if you decide that the 30 lbs of fat wasn't worth the 30 lbs increase on the lifts, life can be depressing. Yes, I am currently undergoing such depression, as my gut has increased to an astounding level while I struggle to add 2.5 lbs to the bar.
Though I do say "fuck it" and focus on getting stronger. (I'm sending Rip a big booty stripper as soon as I'm benching 200 for reps.)
Member
Man, I just looked up some of Chiyonofuji on youtube, that guy was awesome:Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnLBx...eature=related
1000+ victories, a legend.
Looked more like a powerlifter than a sumo. Apparently while other sumos would sleep after meals, he'd be lifting weights. Six feet, 280 pounds. Pretty lean for that sport.
Anyway, I guess my question was in regards to diet. I've always read that 5-6 meals a day was best ... but if I could compress all those calories into two feedings, do you think I'd make better muscle gains?
Best,
Flux
(ps Though, I must admit, the point may be moot. I tried today to eat 3000 calories in one meal. It didn't happen ... don't feel so good. Maybe it was the Hamburger Helper I substituted for Chanko ...)
Member
Lol Draco, I hadn't really entertained that. Looking back, way back, I do remember that the really fat kids in school were always freaky strong compared with the others, and I think that sorta has inspired my latest quest. I sorta assumed I'd be getting stronger with every pound I put on.
Hmm ...
Mark, you must have had some nutsy guys use your routines. Was there ever a chap who, say, decided to drink two gallons of milk a day ... rather than just one?
Did he get bigger and stronger than the others?
Just curious.
Best,
Flux
Member
I think that you're missing the whole 'training for performance' aspect of training. Are you going to compete in strongman? Powerlifting? Olympic weightlifting?
Because if you're going to do strongman stuff, then you need to develop proper endurance (see the advanced chapter of PPST) for things like tire flips and sled drag.
If you'll be doing powerlifting (not raw), then you have to worry about fitting into your gear, and not outgrowing it quickly.
And in all three cases, as the weight class goes up, the amount of weights that these guys are pushing goes up as well. Body fat starts to become a problem for people other than super heavy weights.
TMPHBITEU
The one gallon a day thing was always hard enough for me to get them to do. Two never happened, as far as I know.
Member
Oh, this is all purely for vanity. I have this urge to pick up, and roll over, one of those Smart Fortwo cars with nothing but my bare hands.
Y'know, sorta like the Hulk.
Best,
Flux
(ps I have sussed out the diet, however. Dig ... the Hamburger Helper really made me feel ill. MSG? Hard to say. Anyway, I've substituted 3 boxes of Kraft Dinner + about 1-2 lbs of lean ground beef. If you mix it all together, you get about 4500-5000 calories, and 300 grams of protein that you can just squish into three, one litre containers. With a gallon of milk on top of that, I'm over 7000 calories and 400+ grams of protein. And I haven't even added my favorite breakfast:
Cottage cheese and blackberries.
You can literally throw this together in about fifteen or twenty minutes, and have all your bulk food ready for the next day. I'd like to add a dozen eggs or so, but I think that might be overkill.)
TMPHBITEU
You are an amazing enthusiastic example of a crazy person. We need more of you.
Member
Wow, Flux, you're not kidding when you said you are not concerned about health! 7000+ calories in one day
Btw, ever thought about adding ice cream into the mix? I suspect the full fat ones like Ben and Jerry's Peanut Butter Cup or Chubby Hubby could be quite anabolic.
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