Stuck Squat / Early Shift to Intermediate Programming?

[strengthstarter]

I'm 32, 6'4" / 265# and have been weight training since October.

I've been trying to drop some fat and have been running a caloric deficit.

I think my squats (and possibly other lifts) are stuck. Big surprise, I know.

I have two related questions:

1. As I go up in weight, my squat starts to feel different and get much slower on the way up. Is it ok to be taking a good 3-5 seconds to come up? I can execute a 3x5 this way and that's what I've been doing at 280# for a while now. One or two reps per workout I might lose form by bending forward slightly and doing a slight good morning at the end.

2. Since I am running a caloric deficit, which probably affects my recovery ability, etc., should I switch to an intermediate program until I'm done losing weight? Gains would be nice, but I'd be satified to maintain where I am at for the time being. Just want to know the most effective way to train in this circumstance.

3. (BONUS) I missed press last night also, after a reset, at the same weight I missed it before. Sigh. I am really looking forward to being able to eat again. At least I'm not losing strength (yet).

[Mr.City]

http://startingstrength.com/resource...ighlight=obese

If you support your training, your training will support you. I don't see what switching to an intermediate program would do since eating on a calorie deficit usually doesn't allow for gains, or if it does, there are slow and hard to come by. Have you tried eating to maintenance and controlling your carbohydrate intake?

To answer your squat question, heavy squat start to feel like good morning after a while, at least they do for me. I'm sure Gary Gibson would agree since he came up with his "push your traps into the bar" cue to raise the chest to prevent any type of good morning. Also, how long you take to get out of the hole is how long is takes, although the slowing down of the bar may suggest smaller jumps or a light squat day on Wednesday.

Also, are you using a belt?

[strengthstarter]

[URL]If you support your training, your training will support you. I don't see what switching to an intermediate program would do since eating on a calorie deficit usually doesn't allow for gains, or if it does, there are slow and hard to come by. Have you tried eating to maintenance and controlling your carbohydrate intake?

If my eating is affecting my rate of recovery, my thought was that an intermediate program would allow more time for recovery. I have made a conscious decision to accept slow and hard to come by gains for a period of time; I am interested in the smartest way to train, given the situation.

What I've Tried: When I started SS, I'd been logging my food and keeping within Zone parameters. For the first two months I did GOMAD. Then I tried a Ketogenic diet where I was supplemeting a lot of my foods with various protein shakes to keep the protein levels high. This didn't work; I felt terrible from almost day 1 to day 14 and my lifting immediately stalled and started to decrease. I aborted this approach. Then my eating became less disciplined over the holidays but I maintained my weight and my workout program. With the New Year, I am trying a Paleo diet for 30 days, which so far is working much better than the Keto diet in terms of energy levels and is superclean, but I've not gone at it enough to know verify whether I'm actually losing fat, and my lifts are still not progressing upward. My macronutrient intake doing Paleo is running about 15% Carbs, 55% Fats, and 30% Protein, and about 2000 kcal/day. After the 30 days, I am going to assess where I am and decide if I want to integrate grains and/or dairy. During all of this time, my weight has remained about constant, but there is no doubt my physique has improved in the last 3 months.

To answer your squat question, heavy squat start to feel like good morning after a while, at least they do for me. I'm sure Gary Gibson would agree since he came up with his "push your traps into the bar" cue to raise the chest to prevent any type of good morning. Also, how long you take to get out of the hole is how long is takes, although the slowing down of the bar may suggest smaller jumps or a light squat day on Wednesday.

I've hit 280 for a second time after a deload to 250 and back up w/ 5# increments. I guess I could go to 2.5#. I don't mind squatting slowly if that's what it takes, but because my form is starting to break down it is getting hard for me to gauge whether I should move the weight up or keep it the same. Is it worthwhile to keep banging at 280# multiple times until I for example do all 3 sets to perfection, with no shifting forward or bending at the hip on any rep?

Also, are you using a belt?

I do not use a belt. I've read about them and understand some of the advantages, but it didn't seem I was lifting heavy enough to need one quite yet. I'm barely crackin' bodyweight.

[Mr.City]

I think your biggest problem is that you're eating 2000 calories as a 265 lb man. That's easily a 1000 calorie deficit, and that's if you're not training. To answer your question about immediate training, the fatigue from your training requires to take any additional time to recover. You're not adding recovery days so you can eat less.

About form break down, how bad is it? It could that longer rest periods between sets are required.

[gzt]

Let me put it this way: when I was 6'2" and 240# and at your level of activity, the calculator my health insurance company has said I should eat 4700 calories to maintain bodyweight. I was trying to gain weight still at that point, so I obviously ate much more. At 2000 calories, you're starving yourself, which doesn't work well for athletic performance. How long have you been doing this and how much fat have you lost? And how certain are you that you're eating 2000 calories?

[drecar]

hmmmm..... april 1st i was planing to diet at about 2000 calories also. my plan was to reduce training to 1x week in hopes of maintaining strength for 60 days.

i dont think gains can be expected while limiting calories.

[strengthstarter]

About form break down, how bad is it? It could that longer rest periods between sets are required.

I haven't let it get too bad, I don't think, but its gradual as the weight goes up. I rest 4 minutes between sets.

Let me put it this way: when I was 6'2" and 240# and at your level of activity, the calculator my health insurance company has said I should eat 4700 calories to maintain bodyweight. I was trying to gain weight still at that point, so I obviously ate much more. At 2000 calories, you're starving yourself, which doesn't work well for athletic performance. How long have you been doing this and how much fat have you lost? And how certain are you that you're eating 2000 calories?

I should clarify that the 2000 calorie mark is just my guess, based on some meals I've put together, for the last week on Paleo. I'm not absolutely sure on that figure because I don't log every day on Paleo, but I can only shovel down so much food (absent grains, legumes, and dairy). Prior to that, I have some records, indicating I was around 3500-4000 kcals/day on Zone, and my failed Keto attempt was around 2000 calories also.

I'm not really tracking calories on Paleo because its basically near impossible to eat to excess. And I feel fine during the workouts... And I am not hungry at all.

But I know my eating is not ideal here for making gains. I just want to make sure that what I'm doing in the gym makes sense so I maintain as much strength as possible.

[Mr.City]

I would try tracking how much you eat for a few days and seeing how much it adds up to. You may be short changing yourself. As for your lifts, how often are you deadlifting now? And how much are you loading your press by?

[misspelledgeoff]

have you considered doing a PSMF a la Lyle McDonald for like two weeks to peel the fat off? and then getting back to training with a caloric surplus?

i bought his e-book and it's very interesting. big guy like you could drop 25 pounds (15 of fat, 10 of water associated with fat) in around 2 weeks with little to no muscle loss.

it would be a miserable two weeks but at least you could get back to training quickly. I'm thinking of doing something similar myself.

[strengthstarter]

I would try tracking how much you eat for a few days and seeing how much it adds up to. You may be short changing yourself. As for your lifts, how often are you deadlifting now? And how much are you loading your press by?

Sure, I'll try counting more exactly. I am doing the CF Football Novice program, which has us deadlifting once a week Tuesday. Last night, I skipped the WOD, which substituted heavy deadlifts for light, and did 315#x5. Press is 142.5# last week which I missed (three sets of four vice five) and that was up 2.5# from 140#.

have you considered doing a PSMF a la Lyle McDonald for like two weeks to peel the fat off? and then getting back to training with a caloric surplus?

I tried a Ketogenic diet for a week and found it so interfered with my training and the way I felt I aborted it. I lost a negligible amount, like 5#. However, I don't have Lyle's book and just went off things I read about his method on the Internet.