Impact of age on progression rate

[Patrick]

Recently I've been wondering about how one factors age into strength training protocol. I found the discussion in another thread about the response to milk and exercise to older lifters. I also took your pointer and read your article in the CrossFit Journal and I recall a brief mention of the role of age in stress adaptation in Practical Programming. So while I get the big picture -- it's a multi-variable process and everything goes to hell as you get older -- but I'm wondering if you have any rough mile markers when you train someone.

For instance, at what age do you think the GOMAD scheme does more to add fat than facilitate strength gains? And is there an age where one's rate of progression begins to drop off more rapidly than before -- in other words, how does the fifteen year gap between 15 and 30 compare to that between 30 and 45? And more generally, when can one expect to begin factoring age into training protocol as a valid reason rather than an excuse not to work hard?

I'm in my mid-20's and aside from the accumulation of some minor injuries I don't notice that I've slowed down since high school. But every time an older friend of mine gets excited about lifting and tags along to the gym here's what happens: we spend some time learning lifts and determining starting weights -- nothing really to beat up the body. He leaves excited to come back. Then, two days later, I find him complaining of aches and pains, refusing to return to the gym. These guys are in their early to mid-30's and to me it just seems like they're allergic to work and discomfort and I've learned that those are not good lifting partners or even lifting company. So I've been telling them that they're just paying the price for being lazy and it'll get better in a couple of weeks when their bodies are used to moving again. Is that wrong -- is 30 really the new 90?

Thanks again for all of your work on this forum, it's great.

[Mark Rippetoe]

No, 30 is not the new 90, or even the new 40, but it may be the new Pussy. At least in your neighborhood. There are no mile markers, only general trends. You know the fish diagram (PPST pg. 17)? The asymptotic line that represents training progression serves as a good model for lots of trends through time, and the effects of age are one of them. As you get older, the effectiveness of your response to training, your ability to recover, your ability to tolerate stress in general and unaccustomed stress in particular, your ability to train on little rest or bad diet, the perception of the pain and significance of injury, your willingness to push through a rep you may hurt yourself doing, and 80 other things fall off like that curve describes. It is a highly individual variation, but it will always conform to that curve in a general way. So, according to the curve, the gap between 15 and 30 is waaaaaay less significant than the gap between 30 and 45. Just think what it's like to be in the middle of the next one.

[Dan F.]

From my experience of "middle aged" person (about 46 years old) the "new Pussy" definition of Mr. Rippetoe is perfect!

I started his program in January and having good results, "good" from my point of view, obviously, of a person not gifted for strength (always been a "skinny boy", until 10kg of fat ago, with skinny legs, skinny arms, skinny bones etc.) starting from a very sad situation (low back pain, shoulder pain and very poor general strength). When a day I talked of this program/method to some persons I know, all younger than me, one of them 23 years old, they were interested but when I explained that squat is 3xWeek they said "mmmhhh... you will overtrain..." (of course...) and when I said that now my deadlift is "easily" over 100Kg (114 last time) they said "No no, you risk a back injury! All those squats and that deadlift so heavy (sic!) for your physique. You're fool..."

Apart other funny things (one said: better do some pushups and bike or cyclette for cardio...) and myself explaining that now I've no pain in low back and shoulders, only some soreness, they showed a clear reluctance also to think to do something "hard": this derive obviously from ignorance but also from a sort of "pussy" spirit I see in many young adults here around, all of them not accustomed now to do some physical hard work (in life I mean, not only in training).

[Tor]

Both my parents are doing Starting Strength. My dad is 61 and my mom is 56. They are both making linear progress (about 2.5 lbs per lift at this point, about a month and a half in) and they are both lifting heavy (close to their 5 rep max-- they occasionally will miss the last rep on a set). They eat a lot of meat, but neither one seems interested in pounding a gallon of milk a day. My dad has added about 4 pounds of muscle in two months, they're both definitely getting stronger.

Makes me laugh at the thirty-year olds complaining about how sore they are.

[Chucky]

So, according to the curve, the gap between 15 and 30 is waaaaaay less significant than the gap between 30 and 45. Just think what it's like to be in the middle of the next one.

Not easy, it takes lots of Vitamin I and heaps of motivation after a day of regular work, but most the time it's gotta get done one way or another. Get through the warmup and the first couple of easier sets, and you're finally oiled up to where you're actually feeling good and motivated.

The trouble is too much motivation and you're cooked for the next two days. But you finally get over it, and add a couple extra pounds on the bar for the next session. Sometimes you add an extra rep, but most often you don't.

Training in your 50s magnifies the cruelty of that curving line as it inexorably reaches parallel and eventually bends toward the X axis as the years progress. The problem is we continue to secrete hormones that make us what males are, and they tend to work against our body's ineluctable physical decline, and we blithely keep pushing our bodies with hard, heavy work to elicit real or imagined progress, often with injuries.

The trick is to learn to temper the dictates of our hormones and train smart. Not easy to do, I'm one to testify, as I'm hurting one way or another almost all the time, but there's a very fine line one must tread in strength training when approaching the twilight years in order to enjoy them happily.

[banderbe]

I'm 31 and I'm in FAR better shape than I was at 21. Lots of energy, no pains, progress in my lifts, improved physique, etc.

Have a look at John Stone Fitness dot com. That guy was 32 when he started - that was five years ago. He's made amazing progress.

There's also Tom Venuto.. he's in his 40's I believe and looks amazing.

I wouldn't worry about age, just train hard, eat good food and lots of it and listen to your body.

[tongzilla]

can someone please show me someone who looks good and is strong in their 50's 60's and 70's+ ?

[Patrick]

I threw in my coworkers for discussion fodder... I'm pretty sure these guys pass for pussies around here in not only physical activity but in lots of other arenas. I consider a penchant for making excuses for yourself to be the hallmark of a pussy, either in the weight room, in the office, or with your family.

Mark, thanks for offering the "fish curve" model. It seems quite useful in many arenas of training and everywhere else as well. I guess I'll have to figure out where ages fall on that chart, shouldn't be too hard.

And to everyone else, I think you might be missing the point. I understand that training works at all ages and that someone who trains smart is better off than someone who train stupidly or not at all. But there's a point where your body changes and the things you do -- eat, lift, rest -- don't work, and the only thing that changed was age. Mark suggests that progression is like that fish curve in PP and SS and my question was where ages fall on that line. Saying "eat well, train smart and it will work out" is true but it's more bromide than insight.

[Chucky]

Patrick, there's a thread here with some interesting posts on the subject.

I'm with the more cynical, reality-grounded posters, but it's amusing to read some of the delusional, pie-in-the-sky posts of their detractors.

Being aged 50, I just keep plugging away each day, each week, each year, with the goal of trying to better myself in some way at what I'm doing. Sometimes I reach my goal, sometimes I don't.

What's good when you're older is to always try new things, as you're always bound to improve at new things, being a beginner. Rip's "fish" curve dictates this.

[fluxboy]

can someone please show me someone who looks good and is strong in their 50's 60's and 70's+ ?

This guy is pretty good for 70. I'm sure there are all sorts of chemically enhanced geriatrics out there, but this cat claims to be clean with his "evolutionary fitness."

http://www.arthurdevany.com/?p=682

About 200 lbs, 6'1".

He's a bit on the lean side, probably the result of not eating any complex carbs. Argues that our genetics evolved in hunter-gatherer societies (feast/famine on nuts, berries, animals).

Curious.

I tried his diet recommendations for a time, but just found myself losing too much weight, and tending to doze off.