Found these two videos posted by Layne Norton...looks pretty good info?

[grand666]

Layne Norton posted links to these videos in reply to a guy asking him why he squats the way he does. I think Layne said once he's got a short torso which is why he's leaned over so much. I watched these videos and it seems like some good info visually of people with different proportions. Curious to know what the coaches think and what they might disagree with.

I just lift by myself and know enough to keep progressing, not very clued up on the anatomy and all the intricate details but I'd like to learn it. This video seems to do a good job showing how, when you have long femurs, pushing your legs out makes you go lower. I wonder if some of the points he makes with people who can't squat are because he's forgetting about the toes pointing out and hence you can sink between the legs.

[Sean Stangl]

Those videos are really cool. They nicely show that you can configure your anatomy by adjusting heel height, stance width, and bar position. It didn't click with me before watching these videos that stance adjusts the effective femur length, but that's a cool observation.

There's this one guy in my gym who figured out how to get better hip drive with a long torso, by taking a very close stance and a bar position so low that the rest of us wonder how he even holds it.

[BrooklynJerry]

The videos sure explain how the proportions of our bodies affect our stance and lean while attempting to squat. I know from experience that when imwent to commercial gym all you heard when squatting was chest up, eyes up ,don't lean over. Same with deadlifts, get your but down. As I have learned from the SS book and video that not the case. I guess if your trying to build size in your quads a straight back will hit them more directly even though you will have to use a lower weight then if you did a LB sqt. Thanks for the info.

[Red Finn]

There's this one guy in my gym who figured out how to get better hip drive with a long torso, by taking a very close stance and a bar position so low that the rest of us wonder how he even holds it.

I think Tommy Narvaez put out a video discussing much the same issue.

One thing that I'm not sure a lot of people have thought about is that I suspect there is a correlation between the uprightness of one's torso when squatting and their ability to squat beltless. In other words, folks who are very upright are going to have much better beltless squats than those of us who are leaning way the hell over.

I dicked around with beltless squats for a while as a secondary movement, for a few different reasons, but I'm over that now. For me it's just begging for a back injury.

[danlightbulb]

Very good videos, and I like how the metal model shows the excessive lean over caused by some body proportions.

Clearly the more you have to lean over, the less weight you'll be able to squat. How do you use this information to adjust your own training/programming? How do you determine if the reason you are struggling to increase weight on the bar is due to you approaching some limits based on the way you are built? These types of questions often get shouted down a little here I find, but clearly they are relevant to people built that way.

I'm unfortunately the 2nd type of person in that video, the long femur short torso'd guy. My 110kg squat may be equivalent to someone else's 140kg squat (a guess of course) in terms of the difference in body proportions, how does one use this to adjust the way you should train?

In the long femur'd short torso'd person, is the high bar squat a better choice maybe, because it would reduce lean over and maybe allow more weight to be lifted?

Should the long femur'd short torso'd person go for a wider stance than would normally be given by the SS method (shoulder width)?

The bit at the end of the 2nd video, where patalla femoral forces are mentioned, I'd like to know more about this, because since introducing a heeled shoe (which pushed my knees more forward), I do notice a feeling of more strain being put on my femur and patella. Going for more heel to reduce lean over in the long femur'd person must have negative side effects.

[OCG]

There are plenty of people with longer femurs who squat just fine. Unless your proportions are truly freakish, worry less about them and more about spending time under the bar.

[danlightbulb]

There are plenty of people with longer femurs who squat just fine. Unless your proportions are truly freakish, worry less about them and more about spending time under the bar.

Define 'freakish'? Define 'just fine'? Of course people can squat no matter what their proportions, but how do you know when its becoming a limiting factor to you?

There must be a way to use information about one's proportions, favourable or otherwise, to help you lift? Adjusting your stance, adding or removing heel height, altering bar position on the back all would change the mechanics. How do you work out what you should do?

The first step in this would be understanding your proportions, and there would need to be some sort of model out there to translate that data into actual actions. For example if the ratio of femur to torso was 1:1 you do A, if its 1.5:1 you do B. What if you could measure all the lengths of limbs and torso on your body and plug those numbers into some calculator which then tells you certain things, like the distance of travel for the bar, the angles your various joints make, the moments around your joints, the forces being produced in the various muscles. Seems like it should be possible to do this, its like an engineering problem?

[melody]

There are plenty of people with longer femurs who squat just fine. Unless your proportions are truly freakish, worry less about them and more about spending time under the bar.

Layne norton for one
Squat is my best lift and I have log femurs and a short torso.

[OCG]

Seems like it should be possible to do this, its like an engineering problem?

It's a hideously complex dynamics problem. Involving a hell of a lot more than just some segment lengths.

Here's what you do in practice: Either spend a lot of time figuring out how you should squat on your own, or hire a good coach.

Squat is also my best lift, at +550lbs, I have longer femurs and am fairly bent over. Always have been.

[danlightbulb]

Squat is also my best lift, at +550lbs, I have longer femurs and am fairly bent over. Always have been.

Can I ask if you have experimented with stance width at all? Do you take a wider than shoulder width stance to try and eliminate some of the lean over?

If this is the right layne norton his stance is extremely wide. He doesn't look particularly short torso'd to me either, looks fairly normal.