Member
Strength before conditioning?
Hi Rip,
I'm doing the program from Starting Strength before pre-season starts with my soccer team. I have a question...
In terms of programming, does it make sense to concentrate solely on getting strong before I attempt to get my fitness back up to the required level? Or should I be training for strength and conditioning at the same time?
I'm a centre forward and I want to be bigger and stronger in order to hold the ball up for my team mates, win the aerial battle and general dominate my opponents. However, as a semi professional player, the sport demands quite a high level of aerobic and anaerobic conditioning.
Have you any experience of training soccer players? Instinct tells me to train both attributes at the same time. I guess any additional strength I develop with a barbell will be useless if I don't have the conditioning levels to use it over 90 minutes.
Any advice would be appreciated. And yes, everyone, soccer players are effeminate yada yada yada.
TMPHBITEU
Do you actually go to soccer practice? And do you play soccer during soccer practice? Does this practice playing the sport under sport-specific conditions not provide conditioning for the sport? Do you understand how strength training differs in this way?
Member
Hi Rip,
I do not play at the moment. The season has ended and we have three months before it starts up again.
Pre-season begins in two months and that involves a lot of running and sprinting, agility work, ball skills and calisthenics but no structured barbell training.
Rather than sit on my ass, I thought I could use the time to work on my strength. Granted, it's not a lot of time but do you think three months of quality barbell strength training would yield worthwhile results?
I understand the program is a very effective and measurable way to increase strength. I just have a bit of difficulty understanding how to program barbell training in the context of sport specific training.
Do you train athletes other than weightlifters/powerlifters? If so, do you prescribe conditioning workouts in addition to the standard SS program?
I know this is probably a stupid question, but it's really confusing. Typically, we do a lot of long slow distance running. This seems pretty stupid for a sport that is basically 90 minutes of explosive interval sprinting.
Surely, a good strength program (SS) and some interval training would be a better idea?
TMPHBITEU
I'm saying that strength training for 3 months will yield an impressive result, so you need to do it. LSD does not condition for soccer, because that's not the metabolic situation on the field. Squats are also not the metabolic situation on the field, but we don't use squats for metabolic training. My prescription is strength training, and for conditioning playing soccer, which amazingly enough duplicates almost exactly the metabolic conditions that exist while playing soccer. Extra sprints might be good, but LSD is counterproductive, and represents all that's wrong with letting sports coaches program S&C.
Member
While Rip is speaking in pretty general athletic terms here, you said that you play center forward. Compared to a center mid or a wing back/mid, LSD is even more counterproductive for, and strength/speed/power even more important. Furthermore, anaerobic endurance can be brought "up-to-speed" pretty quickly once your preseason work starts back up again. Strength training on the other hand requires a slightly longer period of focus and consistency to actually see the benefit. Take advantage of the 3 month window and get stronger. You'll be able to condition back the beep-test endurance with little trouble when you're pushing another yard every stride.
Member
I'm pretty sure the worst thing you could do is step away from the sport completely during the offseason, in any sport really.Originally Posted by WayneRooney
You become deconditioned and your joints lose their adaptations, and typically when you start back up again you go extra hard to get back into shape, which often leads to injuries because your body isn't ready for hard training.
I understand needing to step away for a bit to refresh the mind, and reducing the volume of sport training in the off-season to accommodate other training, but imo it's just not a good idea to let important adaptations wither away. Especially for running sports where a lot of the adaptation that occurs is in the connective tissue, bones and other slow adapting structures.
It's like taking a month off of lifting and then trying to do both an intensity and volume day from the texas method together on the same day with your last projected maxes. Get ready for a world of hurt and a good chance of injury.
Starting Strength Coach
Are you serious? Do you know how SS works? I get kids all the time for 2 months at a pop usually and they all will squat over 300 pounds for work sets before they leave. As a matter of fact I just started two collegiate soccer goalies about 2 weeks ago. One started at 115 pound work sets I think and the other started around 135. As long as they even remotely eat the way I have asked them they will both leave in 2 months squatting well over 300 pounds for 3 sets of 5.
Member
Thanks for providing a bit of clarity everyone.
I have fucked about in the weight room on and off over the past few years but I'm beginning to realise that bodybuilding templates and long slow distance running are nowhere near as effective for sporting success as a structured, linear strength program (and a few conditioning workouts from Ross Training). My only real concern was that these training methods are much more intense than what I'm used to and I didn't want to overdo it.
By the way, this forum is an absolute goldmine of information. There are loads of knowledgeable and intelligent people on here and some of the threads are downright hilarious too. I have literally laughed out loud a few times.
I am fortunate to have stumbled across Starting Strength (it was recommended to me from a poster on another forum). I never thought I would enjoy lifting weights as much as I do now but it's so much fun to throw a bit of AC/DC on the stereo and lift heavier every workout.
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