Romanian Deadlift, SLDL and Good Mornings: Reps, Weight and "Stressfulness"

[johnwolfram]

In your book you've said the following (at least I think I remember seeing this):
1) If you can't squat 300 you have no business doing good mornings, and even the strongest lifters don't do more than 225.
2) RDLs, like other assistance exercises should be done for 5-10 reps, and 65-75% of deadlift 1RM is commonly used, so grip shouldn't be an issue.

Q1) I've seen a bunch of stuff on how powerlifters (especially Westside stuff) do very heavy good mornings (400+ lbs.) Obviously it is possible, but I'm assuming this is flirting with disaster? I'm under the impression that due to the bar position and torque on the low back that super heavy good mornings are not safe. Is it more likely these lifters aren't using the full range of motion or are doing some good morning/squat combo?

Q2) When I do RDLs (or glute ham raises for that matter) it feels like my hamstrings are going to be torn off the bone if I do even 160. It feels almost like a tearing sensation or something in the tendons, like if I continue on the with the exercise I'm going to end up with an awful strain. I can't imagine doing 65-75%! Have you ever heard of something like this? One guy the other day who can squat clean 310 lbs., says he never does over 185, but I've heard you say 65-75% of deadlift and others in internet land say 100-120% of your best clean. Also, even at a deadlift of 380 (mixed grip) the most I can pull once double overhand is 285 (75% of 1RM). Is my grip really considered weak if I can't RDL that weight for sets of 5?

Q3) In terms of stressfulness, how do RDLs, SLDLs and GMs stack up? I assume due to the weight used that GMs are the least and SLDLs are the most stressful, but what does that mean in terms of programming? The deadlift is not done more than 1x5 once a week for a novice and for an advanced lifter every few weeks because it is so stressful. As assistance exercises, I'm guessing RDLs or GMs could be used every week, but what about SLDLs if they're trained heavy?

Thanks.

[Mark Rippetoe]

1. I've done them heavier, and my back is fucked up. The guys at Westside don't care if their backs are fucked up, and they like them so they probably work. They worked for me, but like I said, my back is fucked up. RDLs are safer and can be trained at the same intensity without as much spinal damage.

2. Make sure you're not trying to do them with completely stiff knees. Unlock them a little at the top before you drop the bar down.

3. Of the 3, I think RDLs are by far the most useful.

[mstrofbass]

2. Make sure you're not trying to do them with completely stiff knees. Unlock them a little at the top before you drop the bar down.

This.

I've been sticking to things that don't involve any knee extension due to my tendinitis, so my main lift has been SLDLs. I had some trouble early on keeping my knees unlocked, and it was very, very unpleasant when they would snap locked in the middle of the lift. Luckily, I have resolved this problem.

[DCP]

Any plans to do platform videos for these assistance exercises?

[Mark Rippetoe]

THERE'S an idea...

[Carlos Daniel]

I've done RDLs with 75% of my deadlift 1RM (one set of 5), and there no way I could have done it without straps. Last time I tried, the damn thing started slipping and I tore a callus, something that seldom happens with me.

[Adam M]

On a related side note Tom "The Obvious Juicer" Martin who pulls 360kg at 80kg swears by heavy stiff leg deadlifts. He took his stiff leg deadlift from around 220 for 5 to near 300 for reps helping his deadlift tremendously. He did this in a linear progression for 5 reps, 3 times a week adding 5kg each time! He does do them round backed, so probably not the best for safety if you're concerned with that. I know he's a good lifter but there must be some merit to them.

I've also never seen anyone doing good mornings in the gym, mainly deficit pulls and partial pulls off blocks for change of lifts/assistance and theres quite a few people who are doing over 300.

[Dastardly]

Hey rip,

on a related note. Do you have any particular recommendations for people who train only HB or front squats and are lacking the same hamstring and low back strength that LB squatters have?

I switched to HB after doing SS due to injuries. But my deadlift plummetted and I cant seem to get the balance of training stress right. If I hit deadlifts hard then my back is too fatigued to squat for several sessions, but it still doesnt seem to be enough to spur deadlift progress unless done for several weeks straight. Which kills any squat capacity. Training deadlifts moderately (like you recommend for SS or TM) does nothing for me right now, they either stall or slowly decline but my squats continue as normal.

Dont feel the need to comment on me specifically (you probably dont have enough info) but do you have any particular recommendations for HB squatters in general who want their deadlifts to be as good as LB squatters?

[kpoff]

THERE'S an idea...

I second the idea of a platform talking about RDLs and Good Mornings.

I've done RDLs with 75% of my deadlift 1RM (one set of 5), and there no way I could have done it without straps. Last time I tried, the damn thing started slipping and I tore a callus, something that seldom happens with me.

RDLs can be brutal on the hands. Currently, when I do them, I do them with a hook grip as heavy as I can handle for sets of 8, but straps from iron mind are currently in route to my house because I am tired of tearing calluses as well.

[BPIII]

Platform videos for these assistance exercises would be a gift...

In the interim, Rip I would appreciate your critique of the attached round back good morning warm up.

I tweaked my back last week and have been taking the Starr Rehab approach of round backs and haltings.

I'm back at around 80% but find that the round backs make a good "extra" warmup prior to squatting...I sincerely hope I'm doing them right.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMUTHqnV_Hs