Back Injury

[Taylor Ray]

Hey Rip,

On Monday I had a pretty severe (reoccurring) back injury during my last set of squat(435). This caused me to go see a actual doctor and specialist. As usual, they told me that I'm probably going to die from this sooner or later and to back off the weights, start some other hobby, etc... The diagnosis was two herniated discs and I have some degenerative discs in my L4-L5-S1... Let me preface this. I'm not concerned about the pain. This has happened before and I know it takes time and work to get back to normal. What does concern me is having significant disc disintegration at the ripe old age of 24. The other issue that pisses me off is the progress I was making. I was easily making 10lb jumps on squats, 20lbs jumps on DL and easy 5lb jumps on my press. In hindsight, the jumps are most likely what led to my demise but I was completing my reps/sets/workouts fairly easily.

I'm assuming you have probably coached someone with the same issues and was wondering what words of wisdom you bestowed onto them. Also, when I do get back under the bar (within the next week or two), where should I start, how do I moderate my jumps when to account for my back, and are there any means of training besides the usual rehab protocol? Thanks in advance.

Taylor Ray



BW:270
Squat:3x5 435
DL: 1x5 485
Bench: 3x5 330
Press: 3x5 225
Chins: 3x5

[Mark Rippetoe]

You'd better be concerned about the pain. Not controlled by it or obsessed with it, but it can make the days pretty fucking long and and the nights pretty fucking short. Without a better description of the amount of degeneration, I'm just guessing here, and would be guessing anyway since I am not a Neurosurgeon. I'd find a neurosurgeon with athletic experience and ask him. Your training situation may depend on the diagnosis, but then again it may only depend on you.

[mlentzner]

This is always something I wonder about. Where do you draw the line?

I don't want to be a pussy and yet, I don't want to be doing any permanent damage either. I'm in the "stave off death" stage of my training goals so anything that would not be a long term gain would go against it.

At the moment I draw the line at weakness. If something hurts, but it doesn't affect my ability to move the weight then I go. If it is weak then I leave it alone - to avoid any long term damage and to avoid any accidents that might occur (which also have bad long term implications). I also don't use any painkillers to get through a workout. If it hurts that much I don't train it.

Pussy or not?

Matt

[Gunnhild Bruno]

This has happened before

Am I wrong to concerned that this may indicate that the OP may be doing something very wrong in his technique and/or programming?

Does the cause of the original injury matter?

[Mark Rippetoe]

If something hurts, but it doesn't affect my ability to move the weight then I go. If it is weak then I leave it alone - to avoid any long term damage and to avoid any accidents that might occur (which also have bad long term implications).

What is weak? If your squat is weak, you leave it alone? Clarify.

Does the cause of the original injury matter?

Nobody gets this kind of spinal degeneration from one original injury.

[mlentzner]

Rip,

Sorry I wasn't clear.

What I meant was that if a lift becomes weak relative to my established strength level.

For example, I have a hip joint that gets sore now and then. I don't consider it a problem until the pain starts to interfere with my work sets. I'll notice that I start favoring my non-painful leg in a squat. My form starts to break down even though I'm trying like hell to keep it good. At that point I figure in the interest of safety and long term health I should back off until it feels better.

When I say I leave it alone I mean that I might skip a squat workout, or more typically, do a light set the next time. I don't go back to full intensity until the weakness (not the pain) is gone.

It is altogether possible that I am not very tough when I hurt, but it seems to me that this is irrelevant. If I can't maintain my form then I should back off on the intensity until I can.

Hope that is more clear,

Matt

[Taylor Ray]

mlentzner:

My back is always going to bother me. This is a fact of my insignificant life, but the point behind training is to make a weak structure stronger via the supporting structures. So if it hurts, I still have to train it. Granted, the training will be different to accommodate the injury for a short time.

Furthermore, how do I "leave" something as integral as the lower back "alone" in any of barbell movements? I find this rather difficult to do.

Spar:

Read the OP a bit closer next time.

"In hindsight, the jumps are most likely what led to my demise but I was completing my reps/sets/workouts fairly easily."

Rip:

I went to see a neurosurgeon and apparently the degeneration isn't significant enough for him to need a MRI. The bad news: this has probably been the worst pain besides the original injury. The good news: my recovery has been much faster due to as increase in strength. In other news: Sorry about posting prematurely. I should have just waited a week but I wanted to hear myself talk. Thanks though.

Taylor Ray

[Captain Ronn]

I hurt my back today.

Around the end of June and the first of July I started getting some pain in my lower back. I reduced the weight and took it easy for a couple weeks.

Today everything was feeling great. I did some snatches, cleans and front squats. Back felt great so I decided to try some heavy deadlifts. 315x2, 365x2, 405x1, 455x1. All felt great. Back felt fine. I decided to finish with 500. Lift was smooth, didn't feel very hard. However, when i got near the top I felt what seemed light a burst in my lower back.

My aunt is an LPN and I called her. She says best case disc bulge. Worst case disc rupture and surgery.

My question is, am I done? Can I come back from this? What is my training future here. I planned on doing a highland games mid-September and a power lifting meet in October. I guess this ain't gonna happen now.

What the hell.

[Mark Rippetoe]

What I meant was that if a lift becomes weak relative to my established strength level.

For example, I have a hip joint that gets sore now and then. I don't consider it a problem until the pain starts to interfere with my work sets. I'll notice that I start favoring my non-painful leg in a squat. My form starts to break down even though I'm trying like hell to keep it good. At that point I figure in the interest of safety and long term health I should back off until it feels better.

When I say I leave it alone I mean that I might skip a squat workout, or more typically, do a light set the next time. I don't go back to full intensity until the weakness (not the pain) is gone.

It is altogether possible that I am not very tough when I hurt, but it seems to me that this is irrelevant. If I can't maintain my form then I should back off on the intensity until I can.

You're an old guy, so I think this is prudent.

My aunt is an LPN and I called her. She says best case disc bulge. Worst case disc rupture and surgery.

My question is, am I done? Can I come back from this? What is my training future here. I planned on doing a highland games mid-September and a power lifting meet in October. I guess this ain't gonna happen now.

The fact is, you don't know what happened yet. You didn't even mention the pain level or mobility after the incident. Lots of people come back from worse shit than your worst case scenario, so calm down. I know how the mind works in situations like this, because I've been there several times. And I've always proven myself initial reaction to be an overreaction. Everything heals, so unwire until you know something, and then stay unwired.

[Gunnhild Bruno]

Nobody gets this kind of spinal degeneration from one original injury.

I didn't mean to imply that. I was just wondering whether the original injury happened during training, and whether it was caused by a technique error or other issue that might need to be addressed.