Can the 5/3/1 program be used for novice?

[zendefone]

Hi guys, just want to know if the 5/3/1 program works for novice? Or is it more towards intermediate?

[Stagger Lee]

Wendler says yes, and he has seen novices make great progress with it. I think the general feeling, though, is that novices can usually make much faster progress with Rip's programs.

[gzt]

It's sort of a slow program for a novice if you run it as it's written. If you can squat 3x per week and add 10# per session for like 2 or 3 weeks, why not do that? I'm not familiar enough with the program (or training novices on it) to suggest specific tweaks for novices, but I think that even if you were married to the idea of 5/3/1, a month or two of Rip-style linear progression, at least until it starts to feel difficult, would be pretty good to do. It's seems silly to work with %ages when you're only squatting 95#.

EDIT: But, you know, I'm an idiot, I haven't read the book, maybe he specifically discusses this. I really should, my birthday is coming up, hint for wife if she reads this forum.

[Tfin]

It can be used for a novice but why in the world would you want to? By the numbers you will only add around 120 lbs to your squat in a year with 531 but with SS you can easily do that in a few months (maybe a bit more, maybe a bit less) depending on stalls. For a novice I would get the most out of linear progression and get stronger every workout. That being said I started 531 today and I'm still a novice I think. Squat went from 205x3x5 to 345x3x5 and I still have some more but I have some work stuff coming up that requires a good bit of conditioning. 531 will allow me to do more other training since I won't be squatting heavy 3 days a week. I plan on going back to SS then texas method after all of this. I'll probably lose some weight from the extra conditioning which is ok with me which might allow me to GOMAD when I go back to SS.

[JT in MD]

I came across 5/3/1 before SS, so that's what I started on. If you're a novice, 5/3/1 won't really bring out the linear progression that you can milk on SS. I did 3 months of 5/3/1 and made decent gains, but when I switched to SS, I think I made equal gains in about 3-4 weeks.

I'm on Texas Method now for Squat, Bench, OH Press and still making good gains. I considered 5/3/1 for my squat, but when I looked at the progression, it would still take much longer.

It's ultimately up to you, but from personal experience, I wouldn't do 5/3/1 unless you are a mid-level intermediate who realistically cannot increase poundages more than just a fraction at a time.

BTW, and not to discredit Wendler, but I think him saying it works for Novices is equivalent to Rip pointing out that EVERYTHING works for a Novice, some just better than others.

[LudwigVan]

This was just being discussed here:

http://startingstrength.com/resource...t=18459&page=2

My opinion is in line with gzt and Tfin. Sure, a novice could do it, but why?

Recommending the program to everyone, regardless of level of advancement, just sounds like marketing to me.

[Paul Sousa]

I think it can also depend on what variables you may have in your life. SS requires much more dedication to the recovery side of training to make the faster gains it brings. 5/3/1 would work, but as everyone else has said it would be at a slower pace. Jim makes it clear that he believes in slow and steady and will always advise people to increase conservatively.

[LudwigVan]

I think we have to distinguish here between "novice" in the sense of "someone who may have prior lifting experience, but has not completed linear progression" and in the sense of "someone who has never set foot in the weightroom before."

5/3/1 would not be my recommendation to the first guy, but it really wouldn't be my recommendation to the second guy.

[Sean5424]

The party line here seems to be that every Novice MUST do a linear progression first regardless of occupation, interests, or athletic goals. However, as Paul pointed out, sometimes life doesn't allow an ideal recovery/nutrition situation to keep linear progression going. Failing to realize this will result in early stalls, loss of motivation, and "Intermediates" with a 275 3RM. Sometimes slow progress is warranted, even necessitated, by circumstance. I'd rather have an athlete stay motivated, make even monthly progress when life is conspiring to prevent any forward movement on the weights, and generally look forward to the one heavy set of 3 he has to do in the gym today than have him stall early, get frustrated, reset, stall, reset, stall, get unmotivated, and dread the ball-busting 3 heavy sets of 5 that await him after a 10 hour shift at work.

[Paul Sousa]

I think LV does bring up a point worth questioning though in how a true novice (never touched weights before) would start on 5/3/1. I don't have the book in front of me so I am not sure if it is addressed, but for someone like that 1 rep maxes would be unknown and probably not smart to attempt. I guess I sometimes forget not everyone has at least some history of strength training as I've dabbled in it since I was about 12 or 13.