Combining TM for Squat/DL with DUP for Bench/Press ?

[fabelweseN]

Hi guys,

I'm an early intermediate, 28 yo, 6'0" 200 lbs, lifts:

Bench 230 x 5 (paused)
Squat 315 x 5
DL 380 x 5

Just finished reading PPST 3 and also heard / read a lot about DUP here on this forum and checked out some of Mike Zourdos' stuff and I was wondering if you could combine DUP for OHP and bench with TM (from the 4 day upper/lower version) for Squat and DL, like so:

Mon: DUP (BP, OHP) - Strength
Tue: Squat ID (1x5), DL VD (3x5 or DL variant: SLDL 3x5)
Wed: DUP (BP, OHP) - Power
Thu: Off
Fri: DUP (BP, OHP) - Hypertrophy
Sat: DL ID (1x5), Squat VD (5x5)
Sun: Off

So, 2 x lower 3 x upper body

Squat / DL as prescribed in the book (if ID stalls, manipulate VD and/or cycle through rep ranges e.g. from 1x5 --> 2x3 --> 3x2 --> 5 singles etc.)

BP + OHP, well that's where I'd need some help for the total volume, reps/sets, and progression since it's pretty high frequency for both of those lifts but I don't like to only press once and bench twice in one week then the next week press twice and bench once etc.

Would a program set up that way make any sense and if so, how would I set up the DUP days to effectively train both the OHP and Bench with a frequency like this?

I'm not too worried about Squats and DL because I think having them set up that way, I could make progress on both for a long long time before it needs any drastic changes

PS: I'm also doing lots of bodyweight chins 6 days a week (one off day: Sunday) frequency method style at home, am up to 7 ladders a day of 15 reps each so 105 chins spread throughout the day, also am working a physically demanding job in construction at the moment, if that stuff even matters just thought I'd mention it!

Please excuse any grammar / spelling mistakes as I'm from Germany and English is not my 1st language

Would really appreciate any input on this!

Would appreciate any help on this!

[Ben Patterson]

DUP has an unnecessary level of complexity for an early intermediate in my opinion.

How old are you?

Your 6’ and 200lbs., I’m betting you could get more LP if you decided to not be underweight and weigh 220 at least.

[DodgerDog]

DUP has an unnecessary level of complexity for an early intermediate in my opinion.

I think a lot of people would disagree with that

[Ben Patterson]

I think a lot of people would disagree with that

Ok.

Complexity increases as the trainee advances, yes. But if a lower level of conplexity can generate an effective and appropriate dose of stress then it should be utilized. Further, an early intermediate is unlikely to be at the point of needing such complexity as is present in DUP.

DUP would work for an early intermediate, sure. It would work for a novice, doesn’t make it the best choice.

[DodgerDog]

Ok.

Complexity increases as the trainee advances, yes. But if a lower level of conplexity can generate an effective and appropriate dose of stress then it should be utilized. Further, an early intermediate is unlikely to be at the point of needing such complexity as is present in DUP.

DUP would work for an early intermediate, sure. It would work for a novice, doesn’t make it the best choice.

But what if the lower level of complexity doesn't generate as great of a response? I think a lot of people would argue this is the case. Have you read what Jordan and Austin have put out with The Bridge? Two people whose opinion I regard highly. The program uses varying rep ranges, exercises, and even rpe. Even the novice program they put out uses a small bit of exercise variation after a certain point. It's clear these guys think variation, or "complexity," should be a component to any level of programming. If you disagree with that, then I think you disagree with Jordan and Austin. If that's the case then ok.

[Ben Patterson]

Yes, complexity is present in all levels of advancement. It goes from low to high (simple to complex) as the trainee advances.

The level of complexity present in The Bridge is arguably lower for pressing movements than what would be typically seen in a DUP program in the style the OP is asking for. Honestly, the pressing in The Bridge, while not my first choice, is close to what I’d set up for an early intermediate trainee who needed the exercise variation to stay compliant.

[DodgerDog]

Yes, complexity is present in all levels of advancement. It goes from low to high (simple to complex) as the trainee advances.

The level of complexity present in The Bridge is arguably lower for pressing movements than what would be typically seen in a DUP program in the style the OP is asking for. Honestly, the pressing in The Bridge, while not my first choice, is close to what I’d set up for an early intermediate trainee who needed the exercise variation to stay compliant.

I don't agree with you here. A DUP bench program could literally just be:

M: Bench 4x8 @70%
W: Bench 5x6 @75%
F: Bench 6x4 @80%

Increase intensity and drop reps from there. Work Press as assistance. That's pretty damn simple.

Anyways, The Bridge is very DUPish already. You're pressing 3 times a week using multiple rep ranges at varying intensities.

[Ben Patterson]

I don't agree with you here. A DUP bench program could literally just be:

M: Bench 4x8 @70%
W: Bench 5x6 @75%
F: Bench 6x4 @80%

Increase intensity and drop reps from there. Work Press as assistance. That's pretty damn simple.

Anyways, The Bridge is very DUPish already. You're pressing 3 times a week using multiple rep ranges at varying intensities.

I picture something with say 10s, 5s and 2s when I think of DUP, though I agree that what you laid out would be DUP. It (your example) is fairly simple, but I’d assert that more simplicity is very often very effective in an early intermediate.

For example:
M: Bench 5x5
W: Press: 4x5
F: Bench: 3x5 at 95% of M
Add weight on a weekly basis.

It’s simple, provides off-loading, and has proven to be very effective.

In your example is the trainee to add weight to each session each week? I think that’s probably more volume than could be effectively recovered from without a planned off-loading. Especially after adding the press as a primary assistance. It looks good for the first week of an advanced PL program though.

[DodgerDog]

It's actually what I'm currently doing and it's working pretty well. From what I've read on DUP programs they are most effective if you keep the intensity withing 10% within a week. Example: 70%, 75%, 80%, or 75%, 80%, 85%.

This program has:

Week one
4x8 @70%
5x6 @75%
6x4 @80%

Week two
4x8 @72.5%
5x6 @77.5%
6x4 @82.5%

Week three
4x7 @74%
5x5 @79%
6x3 @84%

Week 4
4x7 @75%
5x5 @80%
6x3 @85%

Week 5
3x3 @70%
3x1 @80%
2 rep max

That's the end of the hypertrophy block. Majority of the work is in the rep 7-8 range so you can recover. Next is a 4 week intensity block where the volume drops and the intensity picks up. At the end you test a new 1rm.

The shoulder work I've been doing is dumbbell stuff. I don't care much for the press. I've found I can do MUCH more upperbody work than I previously thought I could.

[DodgerDog]

That should read, "majority of the work is in the RPE 7-8 range"