Head hamstring interaction, neutral spine.

[chrisd]

I went to a deadlift seminar last night.

Nothing contradicted the SS deadlift, so that was good.

One thing that I don't think I've seen described in SSBBT is the relation between a neutral cervical spine and rear kinetic chain control.

There was a demonstration that went like this.

One partner stands supporting himself facing a wall. He bends one knee to 90 degrees. the other partner pushes down at the heel and the partner with the bent knee resists.

Now try it again looking at the ceiling.

It's an outside possibility that telling the test subjects the expected result produced the result so I won't give it here.


At the time it seemed convincing, but I wonder if the same thing applies while actually setting up for the deadlift ? The hips are flexed at the bottom position, so that's not the same as standing against a wall.

Is this a vital part of the lift or just a pretty cool party trick ? It certainly had a roomfull of fairly strong people going "What the ...?"

I can't deny that if I am looking directly across the room at set up then my cervical spine is not neutral.

[stef]

We advocate a neutral cervical spine throughout the deadlift. Eye gaze stays fixed too.

Notice what changes relative position throughout the movement while these stay in place...

[Steve Hill]

We advocate a neutral cervical spine throughout the deadlift. Eye gaze stays fixed too.

Notice what changes relative position throughout the movement while these stay in place...

Wait: you mean the eyeballs can move in their sockets?

I better notify CNN

[chrisd]

When I'm set up, I definitely ned to raise my head to see more than a few feet in front of the bar. My spectacles have usually slipped down by then so I'd be peering myopically anyway.

This still leaves me wondering if a group of people were subject to auto suggestion in the kinetic chain interaction demonstration and whether this is relevant when the hamstrings are contracted in the starting position as opposed to voluntarily trying to contract them with the hip extended.

[stef]

When I'm set up, I definitely ned to raise my head to see more than a few feet in front of the bar. My spectacles have usually slipped down by then so I'd be peering myopically anyway.

Maybe. Can't see you from here. A fixed focal point is important, so make sure you are doing that.

This still leaves me wondering if a group of people were subject to auto suggestion in the kinetic chain interaction demonstration and whether this is relevant when the hamstrings are contracted in the starting position as opposed to voluntarily trying to contract them with the hip extended.

Not sure if I am correctly picturing your "demo" at all, but it sounds like a force production/balance problem.

[Steve Hill]

When I'm set up, I definitely ned to raise my head to see more than a few feet in front of the bar. My spectacles have usually slipped down by then so I'd be peering myopically anyway.

This still leaves me wondering if a group of people were subject to auto suggestion in the kinetic chain interaction demonstration and whether this is relevant when the hamstrings are contracted in the starting position as opposed to voluntarily trying to contract them with the hip extended.

I'm less patient than stef.

This sounds like a bunch of bullshit.

Post a video of your deadlift if you think you need help with it.

In my experience it really doesn't matter much where I put my head / eyeballs (within reason) to my ability to pull. And we see a bunch of people all the time doing fucked up shit with their head / neck / gaze point and fixing it does not magically add large amounts f weight to the bar. Hence, I think the demo they showed you was some bullshit thing they wanted to demonstrate to support some kind of point they were making. BUT DOES DOING WHAT THEY SAY (versus not) put more weight on the bar?

Please try it and let us know. Also, post videos of your tests.


Re-reading your fist post, this sounds more to me to be physiologically about balance than about cervical position. Their demonstration does not isolate for inner ear effects of lifting your head up to look at the ceiling.

[chrisd]

That was what I considered afterwards.

Yes there seemed to be a link between the head orientation and hamstring response. But,

a)The position was different from a deadlft set up.

b)The hamstrings were only under tension from an action like a hamstring curl machine does. Is this using predominantly the short head of the biceps femoris, as the other muscles are not under much tension.

c) Does telling a roomfull of people what is going to happen affect the outcome of the test ?

Balance ? This could be critical, looking might require more spinal lordotic curvature. Or something.

Anyway, the favoured head position for pros (judged from youtube) seems to be the gaze about eight to twelve feet ahead. Ish.

The point of the demo was supposed to be that craning your head up deactivates the rear kinetic chain and so makes the deadlift less efficient.

I conclude that the demonstration was an interesting proof of something, but not relevant. There's no video of it, but two people could replicate it. One stands with forearms resting agains a wall and flexes one knee to 90 degrees, the other pushes down on the heel.

My deadlift is going okay, so I'll stick to the advice in the book. Thank you for taking time to consider this.