Grip Width in the Press

[Bojangles]

Let me start by saying I got SS 2nd edition back in high school and read through the entire book twice. Back then the press 1.0 was taught. I never quite understood how to perform the press 2.0 when it first came out and I figured eventually I would get a coach to teach me but until then I would stick with the strict press 1.0. Fast forward to now, after a battle with Lyme Disease and training on and off for a few years, I have been consistently training for 6 months now without missing a session. I still utilize the press 1.0 as of now and can hit a single at 200lbs with it. Weight still going up slowly via small jumps, but I had to switch to 5x3 on the press. Anyway, back then I spent a lot of time on the forums and watching the videos and I always thought that essentially, the bar should be gripped with a grip that allows the bar to rest slightly on the meat of the front delts, with the elbows slightly in front of the bar, and the thumbs just outside the shoulder essentially kind of touching the outside of the front delts. This would provide a vertical forearm and this is how I have always done the press. The bar is able to touch my front delts, and my thumbs are as close to my shoulders as they can be without being on top of them.

However I have not kept up with the advancements in pressing and press coaching much. I suppose things have changed because many of the videos I see of guys pressing using SS methods and coaching look like they are taking an even narrower grip than this. It looks like their hands are almost on top of their shoulders and thus making the bar kind of float under their chin instead of having it "racked on the delts" a bit. I was not necessarily concerned with this because I figured it may have been due to anthropometry, plus possibly the fact that maybe the bounce in the press 2.0 facilitates a better stretch reflex with this floating position. But things changed when I listened to the most recent Barbell Logic podcast in which they state the reason for the narrow grip is (aside from because it eliminates moment arms and makes the movement more efficient) but also because a wider grip than that can damage the shoulder? I have to admit this nocebo'd me a bit, and I was wondering if anyone could expound upon whether or not this would be a problem. My grip is about 19.5-20" apart from my pointer fingers but I see many people in Rip's videos taking a grip width that has the pointer finger at the end of the knurling which would be about 16.5-17" apart. Is this really that big of a deal or is Reynolds eferring to those exceptionally wide grips (bench grips and so on) being bad for the shoulders?

[Rodolfo Bryant]

An exceptionally wide grip can cause pain and impingement in some. It provides poor mechanics in everybody, though.

I believe the difference between 16.5-20" is this: The closer the hands are to being directly in front of the shoulder joint, the better the mechanics are in terms of moment arms about the wrist and shoulder. If your anthropometry is such that the bar comes all the way to your delts during the press, your hands might be in the way of the bar resting on them. Moving the hands out would be of benefit in this situation. If your bottom position of the press has the bar floating below your chin, it would make sense to improve all leverages.

Now when it comes to press 2.0/olympic press, things change a little. If one is adept at producing a heave from the hip movement, having the bar rest on the shoulder is desirable. This allows a direct transfer of force from the hips to the bar, with zero chance of the floating position to "take up" some of the force. In this case, one may widen their grip to allow the bar to rest on the delt.

[Connor Walsh]

It depends on how broad your shoulders are Bojangles. Persons with exceptionally broad shoulders may take a wider grip to ensure a vertical forearm start position. Persons with average shoulder width are going rest their index finger close to or on the smooth section on the bar.
Start position also depends on limb length. If you have forearms that are long relative to your humerus, the bar will start from a "floating" position above the anterior deltoids. See figure 3-12 in SS 3rd edition.
To answer your question properly, you need to post a video so we can see how broad your shoulders are and determine if the grip you are taking is appropriate.

[Bojangles]

FullSizeRender.jpg

Here is a quick shot I took of my grip width. I brought a tape measure in and measured the distance of my pointer fingers apart as about 17.5-18"

[Rodolfo Bryant]

With the amount of "float" you are displaying now, you have space to position your hands directly in front of your shoulders. Doing this reduces the moment arm about the hands and shoulder.

The attached picture shows the orientation of your forearm in red, and a proposed position in a near-blue color.

Press Grip Width.jpg

[Connor Walsh]

It looks like you have long forearms relative to your humerus. Because of this your starting position will have the bar floating above your deltoids. I'd bring your grip in 1" to make those forearms vertical.

[Connor Walsh]

I agree with Patrick.

[Bojangles]

Thanks guys for the help. The grip width that I posted was actually moved in a bit from what I had done generally in the past. The past two press sessions I took this slightly narrower grip that I posted in the photo (which is still a bit wider than what may be most efficient for me according to Patrick's diagram). I felt the press was a bit harder with that slightly narrower grip. If I were to take the grip that would put my hands directly on top of shoulders as per his diagram next session, would I expect to see a reduction in strength or would I actually see an increase in strength or feel because that is the most mechanically efficient grip for me? I am programmed to do 5 sets of 3 at 180lbs tomorrow so I will try and film a set if I can. Also, I know that this is frowned upon, but I have always felt much more comfortable and stronger with a thumbless grip. I took thumbs over in the picture for sake of keeping the discussion about the grip width and not the grip itself, but ever since I read that Wendler article awhile back I tried thumbs over and felt stronger and had zero wrist pain (something I felt with the thumbs over grip as the weights got heavier despite practicing the bulldog grip). I am a guitarist and so I try to not do things that will jack up my wrists of fingers if I can (same reason I do not hook grip in the deadlift as I felt it mes my thumbs up for playing).

This whole question I raised initially was based on the Barbell Logic podcast I heard, and I felt almost "Nocebo'd" by Matt's comment that a wider grip than recommended will hurt the shoulders and cause impingement. I got it in my head and so I figured I would ask here in general: Based on the fact that my initial grip width, while not quite as narrow as would be most efficient for me to press from for the best mechanical advantage according to SS, is still considered narrow enough in gym circles and hands are still touching the shoulders... am I supposed to believe from what Reynolds said that even that small of a grip width difference is going to cause impingement or shoulder issues OR was he referring to wider grips (hands not touching the shoulders and even bench widths and beyond that we see in the bodybuilding world)? OR is the small difference in grip width at this point in my particular case simply something that would make my press more efficient and stronger if I brought it in a little bit as per Patrick's suggestion and that is the key takeaway at this juncture? I just do not want to nocebo myself and get it in my head that something is wrong from a potential injury standpoint. I would rather go at it from angle that it would just be a more efficient way to press.

[Ryan Arnold]

I wouldn't worry about the injury potential. There are many moving parts to the Press, which is probably why we are continually searching for the best way to do it. Some of this depends on your individual anthropometry but the main factors to consider here are:

1) First - get your thumbs around the bar. This is a safety issue.
2) When considering the Olympic press for overall efficiency you have to look at what is changing. You are widening your grip "x" amount in order to facilitate the bar resting on the delts as opposed to floating above. It seems that for most people, this allows them to Press heavier weights, and thus be more efficient with their training. You lengthen the moment arm between the elbow and hand, but you also eliminate the energy leak created by the floating rack, so it may just be a wash and if you can Press more with the wider grip you should do so. If your arms are really long and this produces an exceptionally increased moment arm between elbow and hand then maybe you could have a problem, I don't know. I feel like your grip would have to be REALLY wide in order to run into an impingement issue though. Tendinitis would probably come up first. But it may just be completely fine. Probably just have to experiment with it a bit. I just started doing the Olympic Press myself

[Bojangles]

Okay thanks for that clarification. So I plan to fix the grip to thumb over but only when I get a coach to help me through it. Cannot seem to find a pain free way on my own. Anyway, brought the grip in today to pointer fingers touching the smooth of the bar just barely. I felt a bit weaker and was mad that I hit 180 for 33332 last week and only got 180 for 3 and then 2 today with this new grip. I decided to do 4 singles after this with 185 and here are two of the singles from different angles. The grip made me miss the weight that I know for a fact I would've gotten for 5x3 if I stuck to the grip pictured above. But, maybe after a bit I will be stronger in this position? Here they are:
YouTube

YouTube