The Thyroid

[Kaplowitz]

I briefly used searched the forums and didn't find what I was looking for so I thought I should ask you. This is probably better suited to Mr. Feganbaum but he's not available.

What is your experience with training people with hyper/hypo thyroid? I used to think it was a bullshit claim to say you couldn't lose weight easily or it fucked your weight up.

Here's my problem. I hurt my back 2 months ago and re-started SS with no problem after a huge layoff. I am following Feganbaum's own advice and am eating to lose weight since I am already 193 5' 7-8". I was eating 2600 cals and my lifts going up easy but I started to gain weight so I dropped 100 cals and still am gaining weight.

My family has a history of thyroid problems. I am going to a doctor to see if I have a thyroid problem but do you think thyroid is a major obstacle for weight management?

My current lifts after 2 weeks:
Squat 210x5x3
Bench 145x5x3
Press 95x5x3
Deathlift 210x5

I am progressing back to my old lifts easily but gaining weight on such a low caloric intake.

I count my macros too.

[Mark Rippetoe]

I don't know much about thyroid disease. Maybe you should ask Jordan.

[Kaplowitz]

I don't know much about thyroid disease. Maybe you should ask Jordan.

Alright. Thanks for your time anyway coach. I will see my doctor and hopefully Jordan gets back soon.

[Joe Tandy]

Are you taking girth measurements?
Calipering? It's important to have another metric measured apart from "weight" as we aim to gain LBM

[Jordan Feigenbaum]

I think you'd see some other symptoms if there was an overt pathology and you do not represent the classic patient population seen with hypothyroid (or high prolactin) conditions> see women aged 30-40, in general.

Also, my last name is misspelled ;-)

Let your doc test your TSH levels just to rule it out. Didn't you previously squat 300+ for reps btw? I seem to remember that for some reason. What are you doing now with your training?

Women with sub clinical hypo do just fine training, in my experience with them fwiw.

[Barry Charles]

I've been diagnosed with hypothyroidism for 5 years or so. I wasn't complaining of any symptoms when they found it and I didn't notice any life changes when they adjusted it with meds. The classical symptoms are fairly vague (in my opinion) and I simply bought into the idea that your thyroid levels are important systemically and should be within a certain range. It also runs in my family. So I eat the pill everyday.

The minor upside of being diagnosed with hypothyroidism is you get a blood test every 6 months and my Dr., who is an athlete, checks many things each time. THAT, i find very relevant to training and health.

[MiddleMike]

As one who lifts with full-blown Hashimoto's (hypothyroidism) I can say thyroid levels (and all the other levels they impact) can have a severe impact on your training. Get your do to test more than just TSH. They should be looking at the overall T4-T3 conversion as well as any antibodies present.
In my case while I was getting the thyroid under control it was dramatic weight loss in spite of eating significant amounts. The thyroid plays such a significant role in metabolism it definitely will affect your weight management as well as energy levels.

[deeprooted]

It depends. I'm hypothyroid (autoimmune issue) and I was really skinny before I started to lift despite eating lots of food (around 60kg at 1.80m). Even my doctor didn't understand that and put it off like a 'medical miracle'. It turns out autoimmune issues are often accompanied by a leaky gut, bad gut health in general and trouble digesting food properly. But that's by far not everything. Low thyroid function affects lots of other parts in the body like other glands. It can have an effect on insulin levels and/or sensitivity, lowered or increased cortisol production which in turn affects testosterone levels and many more things going on that affect one another. So this really is an individual thing and I would definitely recommend getting yourself checked. If the TSH is off definitely get a full check of hormones, values etc. aswell.

So yes thyroid issues definitely make weight management, strength gain and programming (especially finding the ideal volume) a pain in the ass. On the bright side you can improve your autoimmune situation and the bad effects it has on the whole body by tweaking your diet (paleo is a good start) and then -- in case things have progressed too far already -- there are replacement hormones to improve your symptoms (including weight issues).

[Alcon]

I'm not a doctor. I'll start with that.

I have done a significant amount of research on thyroid disorders, and have talked to doctors and spent a fair amount of time educating them to get what I was needing for my wife, who has Hashimoto's.

Not only are thyroid problems more common than people realize, they are absolutely positively treated improperly by 99% of the doctors out there - that is treated improperly after they actually recognize you have a thyroid problem, because you could be experiencing all of the symptoms yet your test range isn't outside of this magic number called "Lab Values" which dictates if you're a-okay, regardless of symptoms.

If you want to lose faith in the medical establishment and doctors in general, spend a couple hundred hours educating yourself on thyroid disorders then go and talk to a doctor. I do realize doctors can't know everything, but a little due diligence of extra curricular education would be nice.

You can have your doctor test your TSH to confirm you have a problem, but it definitely does not rule it out.

Also note, the lab ranges for TSH is generally 0.5 to 5, the standard was recently changed to 0.5 to 3, though most labs have not changed their values yet. If your TSH comes back at 4 they will say you're fine (in range), you would be considered hypo though. Additionally, range values are set by people coming in for testing, that generally means they are receiving a test because they suspect a problem. A large portion of the population don't go in and get testing just for fun. A study I've read tested a large population who were asymptomatic for hypothyroidism, and they all had a TSH of 1.5 or lower, that being the case even with a TSH of 2 to 3 you would be considered normal by the new standards, but could still be experiencing hypo symptoms.

Now, the TSH is a good value to use when it's high, because it will definitively tell you there is a problem, but if it's low / in range you could still have a problem and it won't be representing it properly. The TSH hormone is a pituitary hormone, not a thyroid hormone. It seems kind of silly just using TSH to determine if your thyroid is having problems... Instead of testing a component of the feedback loop how about we test for the actual hormone you may be lacking too?

The TSH test came about in the 1970s, before that existed doctors treated thyroid disorders by symptoms, and actually helped people. TSH is okay to add to the list of tests, but it definitely should not be the only one. TSH is also a very poor test to use on dosing medication.

Though thyroid problems in men are much less common than women, it can run in families so it would be a good idea to rule out.

Here's what I would do. Do some searching on hypothyroid symptoms, get a digital oral thermometer, take 4 or 5 readings throughout the day, though it is not a tell all method it will clue you in if it's way off. For example pre-treatment my wife's was 96.6 to 97.2 (she was always cold too.. I wonder why).

These are the labs you should request - http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com...ended-labwork/

I would also recommend reading the other pages on that site and using it for references, they have a lot of good information.

If I had one more recommendation for anyone on medication for your thyroid, if you're taking some sort of synthetic T4 hormone like synthroid (Levothyroxine) and your doctor is medicating you based off of the TSH test, doing some due diligence and research on the subject may mean a significant difference in your health. From the research I've done natural dessicated thyroid (like Armour) appears to be far superior for most people, though like other things doctors are extremely misinformed and anti-dessicated thyroid... and it has nothing to do with pharmaceutical companies pushing their inferior patentable synthetic hormone over a natural (less profitable) porcine extract...

I could type about this for many more pages... I'll leave it here.

[Jordan Feigenbaum]

. Get your do to test more than just TSH. They should be looking at the overall T4-T3 conversion as well as any antibodies present.

This would only be appropriate after an abnormal TSH level came back, unless you're paying out of pocket and then you can do what you wants.

Not only are thyroid problems more common than people realize, they are absolutely positively treated improperly by 99% of the doctors out there... If you want to lose faith in the medical establishment and doctors in general, spend a couple hundred hours educating yourself on thyroid disorders then go and talk to a doctor. I do realize doctors can't know everything, but a little due diligence of extra curricular education would be nice.

\

Unfortunately you have had some bad experiences, which is understandable. On the other hand, any endocrinologist or internist worth their salt would pick up on these conditions easily. My experience with those attendings and residents actually seeing these patients makes me believe you either were dealing with a primary care doc with his/her head up his/her ass, or similar.

As for the rest of your post, the digital oral thermometer is not specific nor is it sensitive for hypo (or hyper) thyroid. Armour is arguably the worst thyroid medications based on RCT's which measure actual clinical outcomes, bias to big pharma aside. Look, if the actual research supported Armour having better outcomes people would use it..you believe that don't you? I'm not defending the medical establishment blindly, as it definitely has some problems, but please support any of your claims with clinical research. I'd really like to see it so I can continue to learn.

As far as training people with thyroid disease, last time I checked I had ~6 current clients with thyroid pathologies and every one of them is female- just for reference. They end up requiring more attention being paid to the diet but as long as they are being treated medically they respond just as well as others to training and dietary manipulations =.