Feedback on Form

[Kiknskreem]

Rip, I'm primarily a powerlifter but have been toying some olympic lifts and their variants for fun, and well.... there's certanily more to life than limit strength.

Was hoping you would take a look at these squat cleans and give me any feedback if you have some....

These are just warm-ups to 130lbs, my max is around 220, if that is relevant.

[youtube]XTRgBqvdR2s[/youtube]

[Mark Rippetoe]

You are doing what is usually described by OL coaches as a "monopull", where there is no second pull/jump from the thighs. The bar is way too far out in front, although you are still managing to jump back to catch it. Go back through the PC chapter of BBT and read again the teaching progression. If you learn the clean from the top and incorporate the jumping position into the clean from the beginning, the second pull gets done automatically. This is precisely why we teach it this way. The bar MUST touch the thighs on the way up, and the jump occurs at this position.

[Kiknskreem]

You are doing what is usually described by OL coaches as a "monopull", where there is no second pull/jump from the thighs. The bar is way too far out in front, although you are still managing to jump back to catch it.The bar MUST touch the thighs on the way up, and the jump occurs at this position.

Thanks Rip... do you think any of this influenced by the light weight on the bar? When working heavier I tend to feel second pull and power shrug more.... maybe because it becomes essental to making the clean?

Probably wishful thinking.... "yea, my form is just off on the vid you're analyzing".

While I've got your eyes what-say-you about these deadlifts? I have a tendency to come up on my toes sometmes (56 seconds in) and its cost me some white lights, what can I do to counter this?

[youtube]Y4RxNouj4cE[/youtube]

Figure I'll just keep bumping this thread rather than start new ones.

[Mark Rippetoe]

You didn't come up on your toes -- the bar rolled away from the middle of your foot, the place it has to be for you to be in balance with the weight. This makes you have to use energy to get it back into that position on the way up, instead of having it there to start. If you place the bar right over your mid-foot, take your grip, drop your knees just until the bar touches your shins, lift your chest, and pull, this won't happen.

[Kiknskreem]

You didn't come up on your toes -- the bar rolled away from the middle of your foot, the place it has to be for you to be in balance with the weight.

If you place the bar right over your mid-foot, take your grip, drop your knees just until the bar touches your shins, lift your chest, and pull, this won't happen.

I was just looking over all my sets from that deadlift session and the bar rolls foreward pretty much every rep. I do start with the bar in contact with my shins, so I suspect that the bar is then in fact behind the middle of my foot, hence rolling foreward to be in proper alignment with the scapulas when the pull starts? I am certainly not aware of doing anything to intiate the foreward motion of the bar, but its on the video plain as day.

I'll make sure to take note of where the bar is over my feet next session.

What-say-you?

[Mark Rippetoe]

I say you're dropping your ass and shoving your knees forward, rolling the bar away from your mid-foot, because you think your back needs to be more vertical than it actually does.

[Kiknskreem]

I say you're dropping your ass and shoving your knees forward, rolling the bar away from your mid-foot, because you think your back needs to be more vertical than it actually does.

What a stubborn misconception... I posted a squat vid a little while back and got basically the same feedback regardng back angle.

Next time I pull I'll focus on
-bar position over mid foot
-keeping hips in their set position
-let the knees fall where they may (which I guess keeping hips set right should take care of)

I do the little ass drop on all the warm up sets too..... obviously its not working out for me, but without it I would think that my hips might be too high to get much leg drive off the floor. Misplaced worry? I have a history of being a stiff-legger.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Your concept of leg drive off the floor is the problem. Legs are moving the bar, both quads and hamstrings, but the back must be in the position it has to be to enable a vertical bar path, enough quads to start the bar up, and efficient use of hamstrings and glutes. This will be the position your back is in when 1.) the bar is over the mid-foot, 2.) the scapulas are directly over the bar, and 3.) the back is in extension. You just place the bar directly over the mid-foot, take your grip, squeeze your chest up and your back into extension with your shins barely touching the bar, and that's the right position.

[Kiknskreem]

You are doing what is usually described by OL coaches as a "monopull", where there is no second pull/jump from the thighs. The bar is way too far out in front, although you are still managing to jump back to catch it. Go back through the PC chapter of BBT and read again the teaching progression. If you learn the clean from the top and incorporate the jumping position into the clean from the beginning, the second pull gets done automatically. This is precisely why we teach it this way. The bar MUST touch the thighs on the way up, and the jump occurs at this position.

I've brushed up on that chapter Rip... this is my first clean session since. I've tried to keep the bar close to my body, make sure it goes up the thighs, and do the stomp.


[youtube]ZilS1e63dsM[/youtube]

[Mark Rippetoe]

These look like pretty good hang squat cleans.