Moving from novice?

[dvto2]

I've been lifting for about a year. I'm 60, 165 lbs, and never lifted before. I started with Stronglifts 5 x 5 but latched onto Mark's books and videos after a few months which greatly improved my form. I moved to 3x5 after about 4 months, and then spent 6 months cycling up and down with knee and back problems until I finally hooked up with a sports massage therapist/trainer who got me into activated isolated stretching. I'm working out injury free, but am wonderin of I should move from 3x5 work sets, 3 times per week. I play hockey once or twice a week so recovery can be an issue. My work sets are not that impressive but they are currently:

A
Squat 3 x 5 at the 185
Bench 3 x 5 at 135
Deadlift 1 x 5 235
B
Squat 3 x 5 at 185
Overhead 3 x 5 85
Bent row 3 x 5 160

Scedule is mwf with hockey on Tuesday and Thursday. I've been alternating skipping either the wednesday lift or the Thursday skate.


I certainly am not progressing at every workout and am micro loading on some lifts.

I was thinking of switching to doing ascending sets of 5 rather than 3 x 5 work sets. Any thoughts or advice?

[chrisd]

Dropping workout frequency is recommended in PPST for late stage novices. Every third day is awkward, so you could go for lifting twice a week. The extra rest may help you along a bit.

In PPST, the progression basically takes you from a/B three times a week to twice a week

A Squat, fives ascending to 3/4/5 reps then progress; Press 1 work set(3/4/5)+ 2 back offs 5x; deadlift 3/4/5 top set
B Light squat four of five ascending; bench as press; bent row whatever you like.

You don't have to change all your lifts at one go.

[dvto2]

Late stage novice sounds right. I was thinking that lifts twice a week would let me get back to skating twice a week more regularly. I've been doing some light Cardo on off days, either walking or 20 minutes on the bike at 75% mhr.

Why the back offs on the bench?

[Richard Seaman]

PPST has a small section on training for us older folks. Its worthwhile reading, though it seems a shame to have to buy the book for just those small sections.

I'm 65, started lifting when I was 64, and only ever lifted 2x per week. I think that's pretty much what PPST recommends, possibly apart from the first month or so where a few people might be able to handle 3x per week initially. Also it suggests alternating between light and heavy squats even in the late novice LP stage, though I continued 3x5 heavy twice a week. However, "post novice" they do definitely recommend alternating heavy/light on squats, and for me, I'm starting to feel like even that is a struggle. I'm making my light squat day even lighter.

My understanding is that its all about recovery and progress. When you can no longer increase your lifts each workout (assuming you're "doing the program") you're no longer novice and need to think about different programming. Until then, keep up the novice LP, though for me 2x per week was plenty and is needed for recovery.

PPST also suggests even less than 2x per week if recovery is an issue. Eg. Monday/Friday/Wednesday over two weeks. The heavier you lift the harder recovery can be, I think.

Oh, and once I went to post novice I did the 5x5 ascending sets on squats rather than 3x5 worksets. And I did the 1x3-5 with backoff as reccommended for the other lifts. I've recently switched to trying Wendler 5/3/1 for my upper body lifts.

[SteveL]

I've been lifting for about a year. I'm 60, 165 lbs, and never lifted before. I started with Stronglifts 5 x 5 but latched onto Mark's books and videos after a few months which greatly improved my form. I moved to 3x5 after about 4 months, and then spent 6 months cycling up and down with knee and back problems until I finally hooked up with a sports massage therapist/trainer who got me into activated isolated stretching. I'm working out injury free, but am wonderin of I should move from 3x5 work sets, 3 times per week. I play hockey once or twice a week so recovery can be an issue. My work sets are not that impressive but they are currently:

A
Squat 3 x 5 at the 185
Bench 3 x 5 at 135
Deadlift 1 x 5 235
B
Squat 3 x 5 at 185
Overhead 3 x 5 85
Bent row 3 x 5 160

Scedule is mwf with hockey on Tuesday and Thursday. I've been alternating skipping either the wednesday lift or the Thursday skate.


I certainly am not progressing at every workout and am micro loading on some lifts.

I was thinking of switching to doing ascending sets of 5 rather than 3 x 5 work sets. Any thoughts or advice?

I'm 58 and I've been lifting for about a year. I made more progress when I went from 3 times a week to twice a week. I just needed that recovery. I also cycle and run but I make sure that I get at least one day a week of total rest no working out.

[dvto2]

Thanks, all. This was very helpful.

[chrisd]

Why the back offs on the bench ?

It's easier that way. I was doubtful that only three reps at maximum weight would be enough to take me forwards, but it seems to work. One set at maximum and two at a lesser weight, I deduct about ten percent or maybe a bit less depending how I'm feeling. So long as I don't choose too big an increment, I can do my three rep set and feel happy that the weight has gone up, the four rep set is more progress and the five rep set often feels sort of easy, maybe because I know I get a volume reduction next time.

Twice a week has allowed me to free up some energy for other stuff and leaves me feeling less burned. Day one of a three day week always felt better than the other two days. One on two off was better, but hard to schedule. the only downside is that I only train the press once a week and I suspect that it needs more, so I may try to do a press session with my home barbell.

I still think PPST is worth buying for the programming information. Apart from post novice, it gives insight into programming for other sports and allows you to consider altering the basic format to suit your own needs.

A lot of PPST is devoted to the Texas Method, it's popular, but the word 'gruelling' was enough to put me off. I figure that if I make progress a bit slower than I might have done, it's still progress.

[Gene61]

Why the back offs on the bench ?

It's easier that way. I was doubtful that only three reps at maximum weight would be enough to take me forwards, but it seems to work. One set at maximum and two at a lesser weight, I deduct about ten percent or maybe a bit less depending how I'm feeling. So long as I don't choose too big an increment, I can do my three rep set and feel happy that the weight has gone up, the four rep set is more progress and the five rep set often feels sort of easy, maybe because I know I get a volume reduction next time.

Twice a week has allowed me to free up some energy for other stuff and leaves me feeling less burned. Day one of a three day week always felt better than the other two days. One on two off was better, but hard to schedule. the only downside is that I only train the press once a week and I suspect that it needs more, so I may try to do a press session with my home barbell.

I still think PPST is worth buying for the programming information. Apart from post novice, it gives insight into programming for other sports and allows you to consider altering the basic format to suit your own needs.

A lot of PPST is devoted to the Texas Method, it's popular, but the word 'gruelling' was enough to put me off. I figure that if I make progress a bit slower than I might have done, it's still progress.

Thanks, Chris. Helpful post.

[Jr_Geezer]

Another data point here. I'm 54, 5'10' 198 lbs, started lifting in August 2014 and slowly and carefully milked my LP for about a year, getting up to a 320 squat and deadlift, 155 bench and 115 press (yeah, I know, pathetic). The squats and deads were really wearing on me so I took the advice in PPST and last August started the Starr 5x5 for squats and back-off sets for other lifts. That's worked quite well for me. My squat is now at 345, deadlift is at 355 and bench at 180. I got my press up to 130 but got stuck there, so I deloaded a few weeks ago down to 115 and now I'm trying the 5x5 method with that as well. I'm up to 122.5 now and feeling good.

I'm working out with usually three days rest between workouts. I tried shorter intervals but I found I was having recovery issues. At least once I couldn't get through my light day squats after two days rest. Last night's light workout actually felt 'light' and I added 2.5 lbs to my press so things seem to be working.

-RJP

[SteveL]

Another data point here. I'm 54, 5'10' 198 lbs, started lifting in August 2014 and slowly and carefully milked my LP for about a year, getting up to a 320 squat and deadlift, 155 bench and 115 press (yeah, I know, pathetic). The squats and deads were really wearing on me so I took the advice in PPST and last August started the Starr 5x5 for squats and deads and back-off sets for the presses. That's worked quite well for me. My squat is now at 345, deadlift is at 355 and bench at 180. I got my press up to 130 but got stuck there, so I deloaded a few weeks ago down to 115 and now I'm trying the 5x5 method with that as well. I'm up to 122.5 now and feeling good.

I'm working out with usually three days rest between workouts. I tried shorter intervals but I found I was having recovery issues. At least once I couldn't get through my light day squats after two days rest. Last night's light workout actually felt 'light' and I added 2.5 lbs to my press so things seem to be working.

-RJP

I need to check out the 5x5 and maybe even the every 3 days. Thanks for this.