Question regarding deadlifts & straps

[bobp718]

Coach Rip,

My question is on the use of lifting straps.

You have spelled out in your text that the use of lifting straps isn't a good idea and in theory I agree with you. The problem is that I have these little girl hands and I can't really keep a weight that is challenging to DL in my hands, even with an alternated grip. The problem is of such magnitude that I have taken to performing three sets of five DL's as opposed to the one set prescribed in SS:BBT because the weight that I can carry in my hands is insufficient to bring about a homeostatic perturbation in response to a single set of DL's. (Or at least this is my thought)

With linear progression its getting to the point where the bar is slipping out of my hands prematurely during the 2nd and 3rd sets now.

Do you suggest retarding my progress as the cost of developing grip strength or biting the bullet and utilizing straps on at least the last set?

Should I have added the 2nd or 3rd set of DL's at all? I don't want to second guess you coach but this is what I thought would illicit my body to respond to DL's.

Weight: 190 lbs
Squat: 3x5x345 lbs
DL: 3x5x325 lbs

[Mark Rippetoe]

How long are your fingers? Measured form the palmar/digital fold, my middle finger is 3 3/8" long, and with my hand around the bar the end of the finger touches the palmaris of the thumb. If they are close to this long it is a grip strength problem that needs to be addressed. If you have very short fingers you'd might as well strap, because there is no way I know of to get strong enough to hold a heavy deadlift. I had a training partner once who could pull 675 off the ground, but his PR deadlift was 518. Short fingers, fat hand. We tried everything, believe me.

[karpasia]

does the OP use chalk?

[bobp718]

Coach Rip,

Thanks for your time and guidance.

My middle finger, as measured in the method demonstrated by the accompanying digipics, is about 2 + 7/8". I also tacked on another pic of my hand on your book as sort of a means of comparison.

Might this be the reason that I haven't had any luck applying a hook grip to the bar? I thought that I might have been applying it incorrectly but it could be my body geometry working against me?

Its my understanding that you will be at the Milford CT crossfit facility this weekend, I am in the next town over. I found about your seminar too late and all the spots closed up. Do you know if any of the trainers there will be barbell certified after this weekend's course? I have your books and DVD but self coaching will only take one so far. To my knowledge, there aren't too many places around here that take lifting seriously. The only other place that stands out is Southside Barbell Club in Stratford CT (have you heard of this place?) and I've heard that its not the kind of place that you just walk into, and if you do you'd better have your balls screwed on tight to roll with those monsters.

digipics...

Hand on Book:
http://tinyurl.com/dja453

Measuring Up:
http://tinyurl.com/cmratz
http://tinyurl.com/dlcklv

[Mark Rippetoe]

8 cm is about the same as mine, 2 7/8 is enough shorter that it is significant. Too bad you missed the cert signup. We'll have some people ready to help you there when we're through. In the meantime, grip strength is trainable.

[UVALifter]

I had a training partner once who could pull 675 off the ground, but his PR deadlift was 518.

This sounds horribly frustrating. In your experience, which is more typical: pulling strength that exceeds grip strength, or grip strength that can always keep up or exceed pulling strength?

[TravisRussellDC]

Coach Rip,

Thanks for your time and guidance.

My middle finger, as measured in the method demonstrated by the accompanying digipics, is about 2 + 7/8". I also tacked on another pic of my hand on your book as sort of a means of comparison.

Might this be the reason that I haven't had any luck applying a hook grip to the bar? I thought that I might have been applying it incorrectly but it could be my body geometry working against me?

Its my understanding that you will be at the Milford CT crossfit facility this weekend, I am in the next town over. I found about your seminar too late and all the spots closed up. Do you know if any of the trainers there will be barbell certified after this weekend's course? I have your books and DVD but self coaching will only take one so far. To my knowledge, there aren't too many places around here that take lifting seriously. The only other place that stands out is Southside Barbell Club in Stratford CT (have you heard of this place?) and I've heard that its not the kind of place that you just walk into, and if you do you'd better have your balls screwed on tight to roll with those monsters.

digipics...

Hand on Book:
http://tinyurl.com/dja453

Measuring Up:
http://tinyurl.com/cmratz
http://tinyurl.com/dlcklv

Your middle finger measures less than 1/8" shorter than mine. I inherited my mom's short fingers and wide, meaty palms. For a long time, I had issues with my grip not being strong enough. It was always decent enough to keep up with my deadlifting. But I had problems with grip events in Strongman training and competition.

I've worked very hard on my grip to get it where it is. I can double overhand deadlift in the mid 400's and my alternate grip will hold well more than I can deadlift at the moment. I can deadlift around 500 with a 2" axle using an alternate grip and clean around 270 on the same 2" axle with a double overhand grip. Obviously I can't hook grip the axle. I can perform farmer's walks with 330 in each hand for 100 feet. And I can hang on a chin up bar with 100+ pounds strapped to my waist for over a minute. My crushing grip is ok. I can close an Ironmind #2 gripper for reps. But, my pinch grip still sucks and I can't bend nails for shit. But, I don't train those things.

I didn't list all of my gripping feats of strength to impress anyone. I did so merely to prove that even those of us with shorter fingers can still have a decent grip. However, I find that grip recovers fairly slowly. With my normal workouts, I can usually add heavy grip training once a week and not suffer. Currently, I train my grip every other week with heavy farmer's carries.

At the end of your deadlift workouts, perhaps adding some heavy static holds in the rack, weighted hangs on the chin up bar, and farmer's carries around the gym with the heaviest dumbbells you can find would help out.

Once you've exhausted all of your options, and nothing has worked. Go ahead and use straps. Unless you're going to compete in powerlifting, it won't matter that much anyway. The strength you'll get from deadlifting heavy matters more.

[ThatDudeOrion]

I don't mean to step on anyone's toes here, but

Shenanigans!

to BobP, my hands are exactly the same size as yours, I mean almost to a freaky degree 2 and 7/8ths middle finger, I'm guessing just under 7 inches from palm heel to tip of middle finger. I have no problem with applying the hook grip, or doing sets of 5 on the deadlift with up to 405 lbs. double overhand. And my grip strength isn't the limiting factor at that weight either, it's everything else. Not needlessly wanking about here, point is, I'm sick of seeing people on this site and others talk about genetic limitations, waaa, my torso is too long to DL well, waaa, my fingers are too short, waaa bloody waaa. here's what you need to do:

1. buy some chalk
2. do some heavy static barbell holds
3. do some heavy farmers walks
4. as chopper would say "harden the fuck up!"

[Albert987]

I saw your finger measurement so I got curious and measured mine... my middle fingers are also 2 and 7/8 inches. I'm about 5'6". I've honestly never noticed that there was a problem with grip, especially with enough chalk. I've been using overhand for my warmup sets. On my worksets for haltings and rackpulls, I have no problem using the alternate grip. Hook grip works fine too, but tends to tear up the sides of my fingers where the nail meets skin.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Don't misunderstand my finger length comment: issue is not merely finger length, but finger length vs. palm thickness. If your hand is not fat, 2 7/8 may be plenty of finger. And most people do not have a pull that exceeds their grip strength until the competitive PL level. It happens frequently there, but not usually with guys that don't train for competition.