Is this program okay?

[jackdonny1234]

I made a post a few days ago about wanting to move from ICF5X5( a very high volume program, 28-29 sets full-body 3x a week) to a more reasonable program. The majority of the feedback was to do Starting Strength, however I don't see why I would go from the most high volume novice program to the lowest volume. Could I add some accessories to Starting Strength? it would look like this

WORKOUT A

Squat 3x5
Bench 3x5
Power Clean 5x3
Barbell Rows 3x5
Face Pulls 3x10

WORKOUT B

Squat 3x5
Press 3x5
Deadlift 1x5
Close Grip Bench or Weighted dips 3x6-8
Weighted Chinips 3x5

My stats again are,
Age:17, bodyweight:130, Bench:135 for 5x5, Squat:160 for 5x5, Dead-lift: 270 for 1x5.

Had previous shoulder and hip pain.

[Murelli]

Hi, and welcome.

Could I add some accessories to Starting Strength?

You can add chin-ups. If you begin to add too much it's not gonna be SS anymore.

Face Pulls 3x10

I wouldn't do this. Easy to screw up your shoulders with them.

My stats again are,
Age:17, bodyweight:130, Bench:135 for 5x5, Squat:160 for 5x5, Dead-lift: 270 for 1x5.

How tall are you? Do you love having visible abs? You're probably too light. Eat more and grow. Read To Be a Beast, by Jordan Feigenbaum.

Had previous shoulder and hip pain.

Have you read SS? Shoulder and hip pain are usually form related. Get your squat and bench checked. Stop doing face pulls, rows and dips.

[Satch12879]

Here's something to think about regarding you not understanding why you should move from a high volume program to the Starting Strength novice program that you feel is "low volume." For novices, which is what you are, all that volume backs you into a corner very quickly. Strength development requires both volume and intensity work. Further, hypertrophic gains require a certain intensity component for it to progress after a while, if that's what you are after. And we all think that's the case here.

So basically, you do all that volume and you get adapted to that volume. Increasing weight per session becomes very difficult, approaching impossible. You get stuck.

The novice program is designed to optimize your strength gains while you can take advantage of the recovery and adaptation capabilities novices enjoy. It lies in a sweet spot between volume and intensity.

That being said, what do you wish to accomplish with all of that other stuff at this general early stage?

[Murelli]

That being said, what do you wish to accomplish with all of that other stuff at this general early stage?

Pleas don't use the words jacked and/or ripped.

[Elephant]

Try the SS program exactly as written (including diet) for a while. You seem to be squarely in the target demographic.

The program is designed to provide both adequate stimulus and adequate recovery for increasing strength. Adding additional exercises most likely compromises recovery.

If you don't think you're progressing as you'd like a after a couple of months, post again. In the meanwhile, do the program.

Read this: http://startingstrength.com/articles...n_rippetoe.pdf

[jackdonny1234]

Hi, and welcome.



You can add chin-ups. If you begin to add too much it's not gonna be SS anymore.



I wouldn't do this. Easy to screw up your shoulders with them.



How tall are you? Do you love having visible abs? You're probably too light. Eat more and grow. Read To Be a Beast, by Jordan Feigenbaum.



Have you read SS? Shoulder and hip pain are usually form related. Get your squat and bench checked. Stop doing face pulls, rows and dips.

Thanks for the reply. I thought that Face pulls were supposed to be good for your shoulders. Could you explain as to why they could be bad?

If its okay to add chin-ups would it not be okay to add rows instead on one of the days. I like the exercise and spent awhile getting the form down and building some strength.

I added close grip bench because that was also an accessory on ICF and thought that workout B was lacking when it came to chest volume. But I suppose I could leave out if it is too much.

I don't know my exact body fat but I'm fairly lean(probably around 12-14%). My goal is to get big and strong but to be honest being a teenager I do care about aesthetics as well.

[Gerhard]

I'll probably catch holy hell for saying this, but I don't really care. The key takeaway here is you are a teenager and care about how you look.

The best thing you can do, if you are relatively untrained and have no sporting background, is develop a GPP base. Get yourself familar with multiple training movements, prioritise the big four however - Train them first and relatively heavy. Maybe follow the SS progression, but the programme itself dude, whilst it will get you strong and "big" (in a manner of speaking), is it something you can see yourself enjoying? Because that is a fundamental aspect of any holistic (read: defined as somebody not training for a particular sport) training programme.

So, whilst I know how these kinds of programmes look on paper and how to design them, alongside knowing of examples that you can find. I don't know if specificity and numbers and mumbo jumbo is something you need. Do you like sports? Go and play them a couple of times a week, train for strength and hypertrophy on those other days. Like I said, find your feet, find your own path. The advantage you have is that by being a part of this community, you have opened yourself up to a wealth of knowledge as to how to implement progression in your training, as opposed to regression.

You've realised two key things here. 1) ICF 5x5 is way too much for you to handle, and 2) Starting Strength's simplicity is not something that interests you, otherwise you would be inclined to simply follow the programme as it were written. You place importance on how you look, and therefore that's going to be an important consideration for any kind of training programming you implement. If you did like the ICF 5x5 setup, why not adapt it to make it more manageable (see the below example)?


Workout A:

Squat 3x5
CGBP 3x8
Hyperextensions: 2x10
Cable Crunches: 3x10

Workout B:

Bench 5x5
Squat 2x5 @ 90% of Workout A
Bent Over Row: 3x8
Tricep Extensions: 3x8

Workout C:

Deadlift 3x5
OHP: 3x5
Barbell Shrugs: 3x8
Curls: 3x8


The main thing is to enjoy being a teenager!

[SamGriffin]

I made a post a few days ago about wanting to move from ICF5X5( a very high volume program, 28-29 sets full-body 3x a week) to a more reasonable program. The majority of the feedback was to do Starting Strength, however I don't see why I would go from the most high volume novice program to the lowest volume. Could I add some accessories to Starting Strength? it would look like this

WORKOUT A

Squat 3x5
Bench 3x5
Power Clean 5x3
Barbell Rows 3x5
Face Pulls 3x10

WORKOUT B

Squat 3x5
Press 3x5
Deadlift 1x5
Close Grip Bench or Weighted dips 3x6-8
Weighted Chinips 3x5

My stats again are,
Age:17, bodyweight:130, Bench:135 for 5x5, Squat:160 for 5x5, Dead-lift: 270 for 1x5.

Had previous shoulder and hip pain.

If feeling the need to do more, I'd Bench and Press at every workout. Then add Chins, Barbell Rows, or more Powercleans at the end if feeling energetic. You don't need more exercises. What you need is a lot of practice and opportunities to add weight to the basics.

[chrisd]

I made a post a few days ago about wanting to move from ICF5X5( a very high volume program, 28-29 sets full-body 3x a week) to a more reasonable program. The majority of the feedback was to do Starting Strength, however I don't see why I would go from the most high volume novice program to the lowest volume. Could I add some accessories to Starting Strength? it would look like this

WORKOUT A

Squat 3x5
Bench 3x5
Power Clean 5x3
Barbell Rows 3x5
Face Pulls 3x10

WORKOUT B

Squat 3x5
Press 3x5
Deadlift 1x5
Close Grip Bench or Weighted dips 3x6-8
Weighted Chinips 3x5

My stats again are,
Age:17, bodyweight:130, Bench:135 for 5x5, Squat:160 for 5x5, Dead-lift: 270 for 1x5.

Had previous shoulder and hip pain.

It's not dreadful. Quite a few people add some exercises to basic SS and many of them have gone on to lead useful lives. I'd be inclined to treat the main SS exercises as key and keep the others lighter.

So maybe do 10s on the rows and 20s on the face pulls. Do the face pulls correctly (elbows high, palms down, knuckles facing each other) and I don't see why you shouldn't survive, they were recommended to me to help my woeful press. My shoulders are basically wrecked and I had no problems.

Likewise 10s on the chin ups before adding weight.

As your main lifts get heavier, you may find the workout takes longer and you have less time or inclination to do accessory work.

The SS program as written will work. Your previous training might put you beyond the deadlift every session stage, so you'd be alternating deadlift and power clean. Then you'd get to alternating deadlift, powerclean and chins and dips, so you really aren't far off the program any way.

This might be the perfect program for you. I'd say run it for a decent length, keep a log, see how well it works and modify as necessary after you've given it a good run.

I like to remember Rip's comment about biceps curls. They're quite unnecessary, but since you're going to do them, do them on Friday so they don't mess up your main program.

And eat some pies or something.

[ChasingCurls69]

Extra chest volume won't help if your bench can't progress because you won't recover from 3 sets of press, 3 sets of CGBP, and 3 sets of weighted chins in the 1-2 days between workout A and B.

Even considering the focus on "aesthetics" and rear delts from watching YouTube videos, GreySkull LP is a much more intelligently designed program that let's you do some extra shit.