Wide stance squats (Sumo squats)

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I want to get into power lifting and the general mandate and what i have obviously found is that with wide stance squats AKA sumo squats you can lift a heavier weight, I personally find it more comfortable in this stance anyway.

To keep the question short, would there be any issues with using this stance of squat when running the program?

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Do you want to build stronger muscles generally or a stronger squat specifically? Your answer, there is.

don't they work in together lol. I mean is it not all relative, ie if you squatted shoulder width and get a stronger squat you get stronger muscles and if you squatted wide stance you get a stronger squat and stronger muscles as long as you keep progressing in weight.

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Yes, but squatting shoulder width will train more muscle mass, and sumo squatting will train the muscles which 'operate' (to simplify it) at the wide stance, which incidentally is the stance which someone is likely able to squat the most*, due to leverages and range of motion. But strengthening the muscles which work the sumo stance may not give as much athletic beneift (that is, train the muscles and intra-muscular coordination among other things) that the SS stance will, so in effect the SS strength stance will make you stronger at more stuff, but the sumo stance will make you stronger at sumo stuff, such as competition squatting.

*Although there are plenty of people who squat just fine with a variety of non-sumo stances, because everybody is different both in coaching, individual proportions etc, goals and motivations and probably a bunch of other special snowflake shit.

Also, be aware i'm not louis Simmons, Dave Tate or owt and could easily be completely hopelessly wrong, biased or a deviously lying cunt; but i swear i'm not.

good answer. But i believe there will be carryover from a sumo squat to a shoulder width squat will there not? Whereas, a shoulder with squat does not equal a heavier wide stance squat (Something I have read up before i think).

And does a sumo squat not bring in the hamstrings, glutes and even lower back in more then a shoulder width squat when going below parallel? I'm sure a sumo squat also taxes the quads heavily as well so once again it is all relative to how much muscle mass gets involved in either stance. I am personally not doing the program for athletic purposes such playing a sport like American football. Power lifting, getting stronger and getting bigger in general are my top goals, although I am not ruling out something like MMA in the future.

[ChadTheMeatBeast]

I thought sumo-stanced squats were more to benefit the use of squat-suits that resist hip flexion.

[Tom Narvaez]

Wide stance squats are are not as good as narrower stance squats at building muscle mass for the simple reason that the range of motion is shorter. It also true you use slightly less muscle mass in such a stance. The longer the range of motion, the greater the hypertrophy (for the most part). Sumo stances allow some people to lift more because it artificially shortens the length of the femur. This brings the hips closer to the bar, thus reducing the lever arm, and allows the back to assume a more efficient, more upright position. In other words, you're doing less work assuming the weight on the bar stays the same. There are EMG studies which confirm that sumo stance uses far less quad than a narrow low bar stance which uses far less quad than an ATG high bar squat. It all depends on your goals.

I squat fairly wide (not the best form in the world):


A couple of things that I can tell you:
-My squat doesn't carryover to a conventional deadlift whatsoever.
-I tend to be weak at the start of a conventional deadlift
-I tend to be weak at the lockout of a sumo deadlift
-I can high bar ATG squat, with a narrow stance, within ~60-70lbs of my low bar squat


In the past, I've disagreed with those who have said to use a narrow stance squat, a conventional deadlift, and narrowish grip bench in training regardless of how you will perform the lifts in competition, I still disagree with that notion to some extent but I do think you will be better off in the novice phase using the form the book describes. This is for the simple fact that the form described in SS has the best general carryover to any activity. When you're done with the novice phase, you'll have developed a significant amount of overall mass and general strength.

If you're still interested in powerlifting at that time, you can make the form switches necessary and just go from there. When I was done with my novice phase, I widened my bench grip and it instantly went up 20lbs. I widened my squat stance to the width you see above and I went from 365x5x3 to 445x5 in something like ~3 months. Regrettably, I've only recently switched to a sumo form deadlift, but my first three workouts went something like this: 365x1, 315x10, 365x8. In other words, the progress has been extremely quick. My best conventional deadlift is 395x5.

I have a friend who has pulled sumo the entire time, since starting SS, and he struggles with lower back strength in every single movement. The way he misses his squats is by losing lumbar extension and falling forward of mid-foot about halfway up (even if the first reps are perfect). The way he misses sumo deadlifts is by losing lumbar extension and being unable to straighten his back at lockout.

To get back to the point, in my experience working with around two dozen novices, it is best to just use the form described in the book. You should even deadlift with a heel as well, IMHO. When the time comes for your novice progression to end, as an intermediate with clear powerlifting goals, you'll be able to make form adjustments that will serve you well in the future. You'll have a solid base to work with and you won't have to address weird imbalances from the very beginning.

Sorry for the long-winded post. I hope that helped.

[Jonathan Vechet]

[Calvo]

So Louie says that a narrow stance squat lacks external rotation of the hips. But isn't external rotation kind of fundamental to the SS:BBT style, relatively narrow stance squat? Knees out and all that.

(Unless you're just messing with us, in which case, well played.).

[Tom Narvaez]

http://www.t-nation.com/testosterone...de-the-muscles

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http://www.t-nation.com/testosterone...de-the-muscles

I might be wrong from my understanding but does that table show that a low bar wide stance squat is essentially a better overall exercise for bodybuilding and strength apart from the peak on the quads where a narrow stance is better? Seems to me wide stance is a winner...

[Tom Narvaez]

Peak activation isn't relevant to overall strength and this is still n=1. You're ignoring RoM still.