Squat and Deadlift progression on LP

[Marcelo de Lima Marcolin]

Coach Wolf,

Background: I'm 27 y/o, ~79kg, 175cm. I've been working out as a typical globo-gym member for several years, using mainly machines, but when I came across SS last October I started to learn and incorporate the main lifts in my workouts. After some vacation time I started a NLP in January with the following weights: Squat 74kg, Press 38kg, Bench 66kg, DL 90kg. At around the third week I started alternating the Deadlifts with Chins, since I was not very confident in my ability to learn Power Clean by myself. I've been working hard to improve my form with the help of some form checks in the Starting Strength Staff Coaches Q&A.

This week my squats were 116kg, 118kg and 120kg, and are starting to feel very hard, and on the mid-week session I failed my last rep in the Deadlift with 135kg. I suspect from the video that my grip was responsible (my right hand started opening a bit from the second rep), but I noticed my back was a bit sloppy too, probably because I was really exhausted by the squats and could not keep my form as I'd like. Maybe I also didn't grind enough, probably.

DL_135kg_failed

So I've been reading the forum to get ideas on what to adjust for the next weeks. I liked the idea of DL 2x/week, with one day as a heavy 1x5 or 2 triples and the other a "light" day with 80-85% of that, with chins in the third day. I like that the DL volume does not drop and I can keep practicing it more and work on my form. I don't know if I should also add a "light" squat day, maybe in the heavy DL day, or if I should wait until I fail a rep in the squat before making this change. I thought about this because my last 2 squat workouts really drained my energy and left my lower back very fatigued, and I don't know if I can keep progressing the DL after. Any other suggestion is very welcome.

Thanks!

[Michael Wolf]

It looks like you are set up with the bar behind midfoot and hips a little too high. Starting with the bar another 1/2 inch or so forward, with shins inclined to touch the bar, will help you set your back better and produce a better pull.

It sounds like a light squat day and the DL switch are warranted now. Start with 1x5 at 80% and just let it go up from there. Add the second set when your LP is over. I'd put the heavy DL day at one end of the week, and the light DL at the other - you'll quickly re-adapt to pulling after squatting. So your week will be
A: Squat, Press/Bench, Heavy DL
B. Light Squat, Press/Bench, Chins
C. Squat, Press/Bench, Light DL

With light and heavy DL days being interchangeable, i.e. if you want to put DL heavy on Day C and light on A, won't really make a difference - as long as it's the same every week.

[Marcelo de Lima Marcolin]

I really appreciate your advice, Wolf!

Just for clarification, the light day with 1x5 @ 80% applies also for the squat or is it for the deadlift only? I'll implement those changes starting next week and see how it goes. I missed the first workout of this week due to some nasty food poisoning that left me debilitated for a few days.

About the deadlift form, I've been trying to correct the issue of high hips, coach Troupos has already pointed this out in the other forum. The video where I failed the last rep was a bit worse than normal, I suspect because of the fatigue I had at the time. Yesterday I was able to complete the 5 reps with 135kg with better form (at least it seemed better for my untrained eyes). Chalk helped a lot also, I finally got some. I know this is not the form check forum, but since you mentioned some form advice I thought it would be nice to show you some progress.
DL_135kgx5

Thanks again for the awesome work you coaches put in here!

[Hunter Jones]

Umm, what's the name, address of your gym? And, does it cater only to female Instagram models?

[Michael Wolf]

Light day for squat, too, but you'll still be squatting heavy twice per week. 3 squat days, 2 DL days - each with one of those days being light. The light squat day is 2x5 with 70-80% of the heavy day.

Umm, what's the name, address of your gym? And, does it cater only to female Instagram models?

Ha! I didn't even notice that.

[Marcelo de Lima Marcolin]

Thanks Wolf. Maybe my question was not clear, but I was not sure about the number of sets for the squat, not if there would be a light day for it. Anyway, now it's clear and I'll be trying it next week.

[Marcelo de Lima Marcolin]

Hey Wolf,
This week I ended up hitting a wall on the first day, failed the last rep of sets 2 and 3 of squats (5,4,4), and only got 3 reps on the deadlift (first time failing on the squat, second on the DL). On the second workout I did the light squat as planned, and today I tried again the same weight in the squats and got 5, 3, 2 (today I didn't actually fail, but the last reps were really slow so I stopped). Instead of a light deadlift (80% of heavy day would be 108kg) I dropped 10kg and did 126kg x 5. My question is: should I reset my squat, and if so, should I keep the light day in the middle of the week? Or since I'm completing the first set of 5, the strategy of backoff sets would be appropriate?
The same goes for the DL, should I keep the light day after the reset? And how much is the recommended drop in weight?
Thanks!

[Michael Wolf]

You may have put off the switch to light day squat and only 1 heavy DL set per week too long, and have already gotten yourself fatigued enough that simply switching now wasn't enough.

I'd probably take this as your re-set in both lifts. Drop down 15%, work back up in bigger jumps till you're 1-2 workouts away from what will be a new PR then make the jumps 5 lbs again, and implement the new structure as per above. If that doesn't work, I'd look at the First Three Questions. You seem to be making reasonable jumps, but at 5'9", 175 you could probably stand to eat more and gain some weight, and you may also not be resting enough between sets.

[Marcelo de Lima Marcolin]

Hey Wolf,

I think you are right about the fatigue accumulation, I was definitely feeling a bit overwhelmed, specially after squatting. On top of that, the food poisoning I mentioned probably also hurt my progress, making me lose a workout and 1kg on the following days. Only this week my weight started to go up again.

About the 3 questions, I could probably be eating more, although I'm not eating too little, calories and protein wise. I've been a bit overweight for quite some time and last year I was finally able to get consistent with my diet and started to lean down, slowly but consistently, so now I'm trying to not go overboard with my eating and gain a bunch of fat. I've increased my calories for the NLP, I started with 77.5kg and I'm now with 79.7kg, and by the looks of it very little fat added, what makes me think I'm not under-eating. It could be more, but I'm willing to compromise faster gains for a "cleaner" weight increase. The weight jumps were 2kg for the squat and deadlift for quite a while before, and I was getting at least 5min rest between work sets for the squat, sometimes 7, 8.

Unfortunately I had already trained when you posted the last answer, and I ended up dropping too little weight in both the squat and deadlift (less than 10%). A bigger drop with bigger jumps until a reach the former PR sounds better though, so I'll adjust from the next workout on and work back up.

Thanks!

[iamgmo]

Hey Wolf,

I've increased my calories for the NLP, I started with 77.5kg and I'm now with 79.7kg, and by the looks of it very little fat added, what makes me think I'm not under-eating. It could be more, but I'm willing to compromise faster gains for a "cleaner" weight increase.

Thanks!

Not trying to pretend to be Wolfe or Rip here, but from the video you look on the lighter side and are already resetting at relatively light weight on the bar.

Also, have you posted your DL videos to the technique forum?