Protein - Optimal timing and getting to your target daily intake

[JDelage]

Jordan - if I understand correctly, we should strive (for optimal muscle mass gain / recomp, etc) to get 3-4 g leucine per meal, times 3-5 meals, spread 3-5 hours apart. Is that (roughly) correct?

Now, in the "beast" article, you recommend a protein intake of 1.2-1.35g/lb (for a male doing recomp). Is that just a way to approximate the leucine rule, or are those two sets of rules complementary? In other word, do I need to concern myself with the protein / bw rule if I follow the leucine rule to the letter?

The reason I'm asking is that it seems difficult to get to the targeted protein intake while having such small-ish protein meals spread so far apart. Am I missing something?

As a side note, I am curious whether you recommend people eat some protein during the night (and / or just before bed)? It seems like a great way to ruin one's sleep...

[Jordan Feigenbaum]

Hi JDelage, thanks for the questions!

Your first statement is correct. Beautiful interpretation!

The beast article has a number of context-driven idiosyncrasies with my preferred methods. One, in a novice population I find that exact recommendations tend to be overly intrusive, misinterpreted, and the actual outcome (strength/muscle gain/performance) tends to suffer when I lower the protein dose to what I actually want it to be. Also, my thoughts on protein levels have evolved from the publication of that article almost 2 years ago. I'm going to update it at some point, methinks. Finally, I don't find it particularly useful to have a protein/bw "rule" without other context, i.e. total cals/carbs/age/dietary restrictions (vegan, for instance), etc. and so I think any arbitrary protein/bw rule is just that, arbitrary.

Finally, no I don't recommend people eat protein if they happen to wake up from sleeping to pee or whatever unless that's the only way they can be compliant with my recommendations. Eating before bed however, is totally benign unless it keeps you up (varies per individual).

[JDelage]

Thanks. I have a few follow up questions :-)

1 - How should we think about the refractory period? In particular, how "strict" is it - is it a discrete event where a few minutes can make the difference between being on time or too early, or is it more of a slowly opening "valve", where you get some window opening at the 3hr mark, peaking at the 4hr mark (for example), and closing by the 5hr mark...? Does it vary a lot person by person?

2 - Do I understand correctly that eating too early after the previous protein intake results in a double wammy of (1) the calories not contributing to muscle growth and being stored away and (2) a further delay in the next MPS window?

3 - What happens when one exercises? Is the refractory period impacted in any way? Should one try to time their meals so that their work-out coincide with an MPS window, or does the exercise stimulus enough to trigger a MPS window irrespective of the previous meal? Is the MPS window immediately following exercise more important than the others (i.e., does it create a bigger opportunity for AA to be converted into muscle)?

I suspect that there's a lot of "it's complicated / it depends / we don't know", but if you don't ask...

[Jordan Feigenbaum]

Already been discussed 5-10 times on this very subforum.