Raw PL and Bodybuilding

[Mosin Warrior]

I tend to agree, but I wonder what others here think.

http://jtsstrength.com/articles/2013...-bodybuilding/

[Les Hahn]

I tend to agree, but I wonder what others here think.

http://jtsstrength.com/articles/2013...-bodybuilding/

I agree, and I would say the same thing about geared powerlifting as well. Look at old pics of Coan or Captain Kirk in shape. It is only in the higher weight classes where this isn't always the case. I know of a few good 308's that are not ripped, and obviously at SHW the bigger, the better. :-)

[Bryan Dobson]

Yes, it isn't about cosmetics, more about injury prevention and maximizing leverages. Increasing lean mass definitely aids the lifts.

[Tom Narvaez]

Internet ate me, but for me it breaks down like this:
Bench: "Assistance" is absolutely necessary for a big bench. Bench isn't really the greatest mass builder particularly if you use PL technique. You'll never post your best bench numbers if you don't do things like dips, LTEs, curls, chins, DB work, etc etc. Bodybuilders dominate the bench.
Squat: This lift is almost 100% programming, IMO. If you wanna leg press and do all that shit, fine. It can kinda help depending on weak points. It is better for quad growth than squatting depending on your body type. If you wanna post big numbers, probably just a distraction keeping you from doing more squatting. More squatting always works on the squat. Particularly 5s. Nothing is better for the squat than 5s. If you're on SS.com, you know this.
Deadlift: Assistance, IMO, becomes necessary again but it depends on the person. For me, and many others, I can't train deadlift more than 1-2 times per month productively. More than that, and it just goes down. You have to do something, though. So, this is where GHRs, Reverse-Hypers, paused one-legged DLs, hack squats, etc. really start to have value. And even speed work. Anything to get some volume to the relevant musculature while the damned lower back recovers. This lift is about your lower back. If it is big and strong, you'll pull a lot. If you're one of the lucky people who can pull frequently without lower back fatigue, this lift will pretty much go up consistently for you for a long, long time. Lucky you.

[Tiburon]

Tom great thoughts on the DL. Good stuff there

[simonsky]

It's not that powerlifters don't want to gain muscle, it's that they don't want to lose bodyfat.

[Mike C]

Huh?

[Patrick Stroup]

Internet ate me, but for me it breaks down like this:
Bench: "Assistance" is absolutely necessary for a big bench. Bench isn't really the greatest mass builder particularly if you use PL technique. You'll never post your best bench numbers if you don't do things like dips, LTEs, curls, chins, DB work, etc etc. Bodybuilders dominate the bench.
Squat: This lift is almost 100% programming, IMO. If you wanna leg press and do all that shit, fine. It can kinda help depending on weak points. It is better for quad growth than squatting depending on your body type. If you wanna post big numbers, probably just a distraction keeping you from doing more squatting. More squatting always works on the squat. Particularly 5s. Nothing is better for the squat than 5s. If you're on SS.com, you know this.
Deadlift: Assistance, IMO, becomes necessary again but it depends on the person. For me, and many others, I can't train deadlift more than 1-2 times per month productively. More than that, and it just goes down. You have to do something, though. So, this is where GHRs, Reverse-Hypers, paused one-legged DLs, hack squats, etc. really start to have value. And even speed work. Anything to get some volume to the relevant musculature while the damned lower back recovers. This lift is about your lower back. If it is big and strong, you'll pull a lot. If you're one of the lucky people who can pull frequently without lower back fatigue, this lift will pretty much go up consistently for you for a long, long time. Lucky you.

Interesting I have different experience and despise fives on squats with a PASSION. At least heavy 5's. volume-esque 5's are ok. Not the be all and end all rep scheme for me though.

Bench: what tom said, I will also add more spread out sets, more frequent benching (1x a week is a NO GO for me). 2-3x a week benching has always spurned progress. But I suck major dicks at this lift so ignore me till I bench 365.

Squat: squatting more. but also squatting in workouts where the work is spread out over several sets. I cant work up to one top set with minimal volume before hit a heavy 5 and continue that for weeks. I need multiple sets. Various rep schemes work here for me. and depends on where I am at in terms of near a meet. I do need to squat 2x a week to keep patterns right. So I add a light squat before I deadlift.

Deadlift: I love this lift, I love training it. But again minimal volume does not work for me, and rep it out schemes DONT either (i naturally love to round back these, so rep out sets over exaggerate that and then fry me for squats the next few days after). Again more sets with work spread out in a session. This past meet I used Matt Gary's SSPT deadlift table and did timed heavy singles after my heavy squats and LOVED it. The singles with fixed rest let me nail technique down, get condensed focused work in, and didnt beat up my structures to where I couldnt pull off heavy squats and deads again in 7 days. Also my deadlift loveeeeeessssssss a bunch of quad and back work. So i do think low impact stuff like leg press hack squat help it. So do front squats, and tons of rowing and shrugging. Also hamstring work helps me but isnt a prime mover as much as correct form squats and deads are.

But the theme for me is VOLUME. I need focused volume and needs to spread out. Minimal volumes programs / schemes dont offer me long term improvement and my technique goes to doo doo.

volume volume volume volume. I wish I could hammer that in newbie patrick's brain. especially on bench. I can handle DOUBLE the total volume of bench I can squatting and deadlifting combined. And I just about HAVE to run that or progress will fall off.

[Dwayne_KONG_Wint]

It's not that powerlifters don't want to gain muscle, it's that they don't want to lose bodyfat.

Huh?

So simonsky is talking about bodybuilding the overall activity. As an overall activity bodybuilding is more than just hitting 4-5 sets of 4-5 exercises for 8-20 reps with drop sets, super sets, giant sets, etc. Simonsky is referring to the lifestyle of a bodybuilder, the goals of a bodybuilder, and everything else that comes with it.

Dan Green is talking about how the bodybuilding style lifting can complement the PL style lifting....which is absolutely true. That's where it converges. Building muscle makes you stronger. Getting stronger builds muscle.

The divergence happens when it comes to the ultimate goals of each activity. The end results are very different.

But to keep it in context, Dan Green was only talking about the lifting. So this discussion should be centered on that...simonsky.

[Dwayne_KONG_Wint]

Squat and Deadlift: Back, ABZZZ, and Hamstring work of all types have helped me so much with these. Also getting enough volume in on the main lift as well...but also not shying away from heavy stuff. Having awesome programming helps a whole lot.

Bench: If it makes me swole it helps my bench...so pretty much everything is game. From the first time I touched a weight, I have not had trouble with pumping my upper body into oblivion. I don't know what it is but I get swole very easily...light or heavy weight doesn't matter. Maybe I have a problem. Maybe I don't. Programming is key here too because I've had some agressive stuff in the past that I ended up going downhill with. Getting enough actual bench and bench variety work in really dials in technique and will make the bench better.