Knees out too much?

[DB5]

Hi,

I?ll start out by saying I have both the SS and PP books and have read both closely. I also searched on this Forum for an answer to this question but didn?t find one.

The question is how do I know if I?m pushing my knees out too much? The feeling I get is somewhat off balance, as if the weight is on the outside edge of my feet. I feel much better when I don?t intentionally push out my knees but simply try to stay in balance on the way down. I did the drill suggested in SS where I look between my feet on the way down and the knees are not going inside, but how do I know if they are too far outside?

[Mark Rippetoe]

The purpose of knees-out is twofold: keeping the knees from twisting, and placing the femurs in a position in which the adductors can be used most effectively. If your femurs are parallel to your feet, you are correct, and if your knees are outside your toes you are shoving them out too much.

[DB5]

Part of this problem might be the geometry of my legs. When standing straight, heels close togeter (maybe 6 inches apart), my feet naturally point slightly out. While walking, too, I notice that my feet are not lined up straight but are slightly out.

While sitting in a chair, if I try to make either the feet point straight or make the knee go right over the foot I feel tension in the knee. However, if my knee goes a little to the inside of my feet then it feels alright.

Any suggestions?

[Mark Rippetoe]

Well, it is certainly relevant that you are duck-footed. If your feet and femurs are not naturally straight, the angle between them has to be preserved in your squat stance or you'll have a torsion on the knee, as you've observed.

[TravisRussellDC]

Check and see if your hip external rotators are hypertonic. If they are overly tight, they will force the toes out laterally like you're describing. And you're may be feeling tension in the knee while trying to correct this because of the pull you're creating on the lateral thigh muscles.

Check piriformis and its attachment into the lateral femur. Check your TFL and IT bands as well. Chances are those three are going to be tight. Run your fingers down the outside of your thighs. If it feels like there is a bunch of Rice Krispies under the skin, they need to be stripped out.

The other possibility is hip/knee/ankle joint dysfunction. This can be either to mechancial faults or anatomical variances. If it's mechanical, it can be addressed. If it's anatomical, you're going to have to learn to live with it.

One thing to keep in mind, I always find that if there is muscle dysfunction there is also joint dysfunction, and vice versa. You can't have one without the other being affected to some degree.

[DB5]

If that is the case, how would I figure out what the right angle is?

[Mark Rippetoe]

If is anatomical (and it usually is if a few weeks of correct squatting have not changed the relationship) then correct will be the foot position that stays constant when you squat with your knees in the position that would be parallel to your feet at about a 30 degree stance. In other words, when you warm up, place your feet at the normal angle of about 30 degrees, keep your knees at that angle, squat down, and see where your feet end up as the toes rotate out to accommodate your asymmetry. That will be your stance.