Consistent progress...through consistent failure and resets

[andrewb]

Hey there,

Name's Andrew, stats are as follows (with explanation and question below, I apologize in advance for lengthiness)

Age: 28
Height: 5'8.5"
Weight: 167
Time training: 6 months
Squat: 3X6 210
BP: 3X6 185
OHP: 3X6 120
DL: 2X6 270

I started with Starting Strength. I had consistent issues with my squat and ending up resetting a bunch (more on this in a moment). I recently switched to a slightly less aggressive novice program that incorporates pause squats, that's why my rep ranges are slightly different. I understand people may have an aversion to non-Rippetoe programming and I respect that, but my issues predate my program change so hopefully we can ignore my programming for the moment.

Basically, I've consistently had to reset my squat since I started squatting. I failed -- legitimately failed -- to squat 95 3X5. The pattern has been pretty consistent; I fail, due to form breakdown (I basically lean too far forward, end up off my heels, and can't get up), reset, go up another 10 - 20 pounds past the point of last failure, and the same thing happens again. It's also usually unexpected; my squats at 210 were no worse than they were at 205, but I failed spectacularly today at 215. My form is very good on warm-ups and pause squats, but I would say that my form is inconsistent on heavy sets, I almost always end up going off my heels and grinding up at least 1-2 reps per set. I squat high bar and deep.

I don't think the issue is lack of weight/muscle gain, I've gained at least 7 - 8 pounds of muscle since I started, maybe more since I think my bf% is lower now. I seem to gain muscle rather easily and had gained about 5 pounds prior to strength training from 6 months of bodyweight training. Generally my sleep and diet is good though occasionally my sleep gets off. I will say that I'm not very explosive and that I've never been particularly graceful; I might be what Rippetoe affectionately refers to as a "motor moron."

So, at the moment, my current strategy is to reset and work my way back up again because that's what's worked previously. I thought incorporating pause squats would help, and I think it has, but it's clearly not enough. Any advice? All I really care about is progress, I don't mind if it's slow, but the resets are a little demoralizing and form breakdowns suck and are frankly a little scary. I've thought about doing the same weight for multiples sessions to work on form, but my form only seems to improve by working with heavier weights and then going back down again; ie I last failed at 200, then I reset to 180 and my form at 195 - 200 was much better the second time than the first.

Thanks in advance.

[atb5161]

I guess I'll be the first to say it...

If you want any meaningful advice, your best bet is to post a form check video. It's tough to assess the situation without knowing what your squat looks like.

[andrewb]

Thanks for reading, I appreciate the response. I'll get some footage, but it'll likely be on my phone as there's no way I can set up a camera in my gym.

That being said, my squats are good until they're not. I realize that's not necessarily a useful statement, and of course I may be wrong, but my form is good when the weight is within a certain range for me and then it no longer is. I'll still get footage and post it, I'm sure that will be useful as well.

[Keith]

a video of your squats will definitely help. It is hard to assess your own form while doing the movement.

I think you need to gain weight. The form breakdown you describe sounds like it is just weakness. You need to get stronger to maintain form and stronger requires bigger. If I were you I would get 20lbs on quick. I would post a video; get a form check; do a reset and eat more.... you basically have to eat enough so that build enough muscle so that you dont get stuck.

In my own experience I got stuck squatting 205lb for 3 sets of 5 at a bodyweight of 170. My squat went up once I ate more and got bigger-- I am a little taller and a little older. Usually, if you are on the skinny side and dont gain weight your form breaks down or your squat starts creeping up above parallel. If your form is good and you stick to novice programming (I would stick close to SS) and eat enough to grow you will get strong quick.

[atb5161]

OP find some time to film a set of squats where you feel you have 'good' technique, as well as a set where your technique fails.

Look over this thread for filming tips. Just set up your phone on something in the gym or ask a person to film you for 30 seconds.

Edit: I'm also going to respectfully disagree with Keith. While increasing bodyweight may increase weight on the bar, I don't see a reason why a 170lb healthy adult male can't squat 205 for a few sets of 5. I think that's symptomatic of something else (form faults). By all means do not stop gaining weight, but make sure you nail down proper movement. You don't want to be making this same post in 3 months at 185lbs bodyweight and 225lbs on the bar. Just my two cents.

[andrewb]

Thanks for the thread atb5161, will do.

And Keith, that makes sense, thanks for that. I know a lot of guys put on more weight, and while I'm definitely in a surplus and gaining it's possible I need to be gaining faster.

[Philbert]

Thanks for the thread atb5161, will do.

And Keith, that makes sense, thanks for that. I know a lot of guys put on more weight, and while I'm definitely in a surplus and gaining it's possible I need to be gaining faster.

At your weight, if you have in fact decreased %fat since starting progressive lifting you would progress better by gaining a bit faster. That is not to take away from the fact that what you describe suggests a form flaw which shows up when the weight is heavy. Be forewarned, our preferred method of squatting here is low bar, just below parallel. If you want to squat high bar you will still get some good form feedback.