Member
Back can't support squats
I am 19, 5'4", 140 lbs. I have been trying to use the correct form on squats but when I am doing heavy weights (245 lbs. for sets of 5) I absolutely cannot keep the arch in my back. I can do about 285 lbs. for 5 reps on the deadlift. My hamstrings lose tension when my back isn't tight and the lift is screwed up (also having trouble using the stretch reflex with heavy weight).
I have been trying to do "knees out" and "sit back" simultaneously but "sitting back" makes it feel like my torso just wants to fall forward. A pretty good powerlifter I know says that I should be looking straight forward or slightly up (he says if you look at the best squatters they do this) with squats and that I should move the bar farther up than the low bar I am currently using so my back won't have as much weight to support (with regard to torque). He also says since my back is weak I should do good mornings to make it stronger because they don't take as long to recover from as deadlifts. He also objects to your SS routine as has mentioned that I should try some more advanced Louie Simmons style speed work too.
I was doing deadlifts today and he got mad that I was going to use straps on the last warmup and work set and said that my grip wouldn't get any better unless I did it with one hand pronated. I told him I was doing the exercise for my back, not for my forearms. Also, you said the one hand pronated grip puts asymmetrical stress on the bicep tendpn, something I don't want to deal with since I am not doing meets.
I used to like squats but now I feel like I can't do them right unless I use a weight about 20 lbs. than my legs can handle. I can deadlift more, but the back angle I have in deads is more upright than my squat (and I am fairly certain my deadlifts are good form-wise). I try to think about the "hips up" cue but even in conjunction with "chest up" I feel as if my torso just wants to tilt forward excessively. Do you have any tips to help me with my back/squat problem?
Thank you Coach, I am certain you have some good advice on this subject.
TMPHBITEU
You can't keep your back arched with your work sets, but this guy wants you to do high-bar squats with advanced Westside programming? I think you should back off, learn how to get voluntary control of your lumbar muscles, and work back up to 245 with better form. Don't confuse a lack of progress with a lack of programming complexity. And your back angle for a squat should be more vertical than for a deadlift unless you're pulling sumo.
Member
Rip would disagree with that powerlifter - check out the crossfit journal article on Back Squat Geometry.Originally Posted by yunstr
Member
I think my squat back angle may be too horizontal and my deadlift back angle too vertical. As soon as I go down (unless I don't stick my hips back at all) my back wants to lean forward at about a 55 degree angle. When I go down to parallel or a little lower my butt tucks under and my chest just falls. I thought my hamstring flexibility was good, I guess not.
Not even taking into account his Westside comments (which were on another day) why is the high bar and head position he advocates wrong? He said if your head is up your chest will fall. I told him what your book says and he called bs. Also said the best squatters squat on their heels, not the middles of their feet. Do a lot of lifters disagree with things like this? Do you think he is thinking just about powerlifting so much that he doesn't understand I am just doing general strength training?
Well, I guess you can't do a whole lot without a picture or video, so that's it.
TMPHBITEU
You may be right about your back squat and DL back angles, since these are common errors. My position on the high bar squat and eye position is well documented if you've read my book, and I have a lot of respect for most powerlifters, but not guys who "call bs" on things with which they are not familiar.
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