5/3/1 programming without bench press

[Jsutt]

Hi KSC, first of all I think what you're doing here is awesome, should help a lot of people out.

I'm an intermediate lifter, and for about two months I've been running Jim Wendler's 5/3/1 full-body program which is kind of a cross between 5/3/1 and Texas Method. The problem I'm trying to solve is that I hate bench pressing with a passion. I've never been good at it, it doesn't progress, it never feels strong, and it's a pain in the ass doing it safely. I also think it contributes to inflammation in my shoulder and elbow. I *could* persevere with it, but I'd rather drop it. I already do dumbbell benches on Monday as assistance and overhead presses on Friday.

My question is, if I replace the bench press on Wednesday with weighted dips, is that adequate to keep driving upper body strength and maintain healthy shoulders? And would that be at a similar level of volume to the 5/3/1 model or do I need to keep to higher reps?

Thanks for any advice you can give.
Stats:
Age 25
Weight ~195lb (haven't had scales for a while)
Best lifts:
Squat 303x5
Deadlift 350x5
Bench 190x2
Press 137x1
Power clean 187x1

[Andy Baker (KSC)]

I generally only drop benching from a clients program when they are over the 300 lb mark and can do weighted dips with enough weight to make a difference, and their press is where I want it to be in relation to their goals.

It is hard to move the press without bench presses. If the press is gonna be your main focus then I'd rather see you press twice per week rather than db bench, dip, press.

That being said, if I was pressing 137 and bench 190 I would keep benching.

[Jsutt]

Ah, I was hoping you weren't going to say that. My bench *has* got stronger since starting 5/3/1 full-body, from something like 175 for 2 (grinding) to 175 for 5 (solid), I just don't like doing it. I've read a few articles on the net that suggested the main reasons to bench are a) it's part of powerlifting and b) guys love bench pressing so much, and since neither applied I figured I could just drop it entirely. Oh well...

Do you think it would be better to do the benches with higher reps/lower intensity than a 5/3/1 set then? Perhaps I could go back to just doing 3x5 with a lower weight.

[Andy Baker (KSC)]

I'm not gonna tell you that you have to do anything. Guys have gotten strong doing all kinds of stuff, including not benching. The reason I like benches for novices is that they allow you to handle the most amount of weight through a full range of motion.

What are your training goals???

[Jsutt]

I just want to get to a decent level of strength and be more muscular. My goals at the moment are focused on getting to a 400lb squat and a 440 deadlift, and then I was planning to re-evaluate. If circumstances allow I want to get into olympic lifting but at the moment I'm not really in a position to do that.

[Andy Baker (KSC)]

Sounds good to me. Let us know how you do.

[OCG]

It should be noted that if benching does not "feel good" and you aren't solid and tight under the bar then your form needs work.

[Andy Baker (KSC)]

Noted.

[Róbert Kovács]

I generally only drop benching from a clients program when they are over the 300 lb mark and can do weighted dips with enough weight to make a difference, and their press is where I want it to be in relation to their goals.

It is hard to move the press without bench presses. If the press is gonna be your main focus then I'd rather see you press twice per week rather than db bench, dip, press.

That being said, if I was pressing 137 and bench 190 I would keep benching.

Hi Andy,

Could you comment on my pressing program? I'm also focusing on the press, although I don't want to drop the bench.

Here's what I'm doing now. I'm doing 2-3 sets of 5 or 3 as warmup before these.

Thursday (Heavy day): Bench 3x5 ramped + 1 back-off (8-12)
Saturday (Light day): Press 3x5 across
Monday (Medium day): Press 5x3 across + 1 back-off (8-12), Dips (BW or 3x5 ramped or across)

Last week's weights:
H: Bench 176lbsx5, 198lbsx5, 220lbsx4, 154lbsx10
L: Press 151lbs 3x5
M: Press 165lbs 5x3, 132lbs 1x11, Dips: BW (218lbsx10) +26lbsx5 +44lbsx5 + 66lbsx5

Stats:
age:31
height: 5'11''
weight: 218lbs

So what do you think? Goal is to press 220lbsx1 (bodyweight), latest 1RM I've tested was 176lbsx1.
I'd like to use the bench and the weighted dips primarily as assistance in increasing my press.

Thanks for your answer in advance!

BR,
Robert

[Jsutt]

It should be noted that if benching does not "feel good" and you aren't solid and tight under the bar then your form needs work.

This is probably true. I've gone back to SS to read the bench chapter and I'll put up some form checks before giving up on it.