How to Incorporate Power Work Without Power Cleans?

[peacerenity]

So I'm thinking about incorporating some power work into my routine. Here are my current stats:

Height: 6'1
Weight: 216
Squat: 3 x 5 x 335
Bench Press: 3 x 5 x 200
Deadlift: 1 x 5 x 315 (I know it's low--form issues on my squat always wear out my lower back and thus limit my deadlift--I'm working on it)
Overhead Press: 3 x 5 x 110

I have two questions.

1. Is this considered messing with the program, and thus something to be avoided, or at least postponed until later?

2. How do I actually implement this without power cleans? I've tried doing it on several occasions and have almost messed up my back, so those are out for now. In Practical Programming, I see that a good way to work on power is to do 50-80% of 1RM, 3-5 reps, lifting as fast as possible, but how do I actually implement this? Do I do a dedicated "power" day once a week? Do I lower normally and accelerate quickly, or do both quickly? Will lifting as fast as I can with barbells mean having to decelerate to keep the bar in my hands, and thus necessitate use of a Smith machine and doing bench throws, jump squats, etc.? Etc.

[dsp]

Your press seems really low in comparison to your bench. No hate, just lifts are all much higher than mine (especially squat, holy shit!) except the Press.. should re-read SS for form.

I would wait until you exhaust linear progression to start fucking with stuff like speed sets. In PPST, in the intermediate chapter, Rip explains how to implement a power day, but that's tied to the intermediate's training schedule. That said, judging from your weights, you might be almost finished LP, so I'd just hold off for a bit longer! Faster punches are good, but not at the expense of stronger punches.

[aron]

Unless you're an athlete, why do you need power work? You'll notice similar benefits from getting stronger. If its things like your vertical jump you want to improve, then work on that. It's also very unlikely that you'll be able to throw upwards of 50% of your bench out your hands. If its punching power, work on punching technique. Having a strong bench doesn't correlate very well to a good punch. You need to learn to punch correctly from the hips and back. If you're just an average joe, then work on getting stronger.

[Patrick Stroup]

Definitely get stronger. at 6'1" 216 I am assuming you have A LOT More in you dead lift wise. Not to mention your press and bench.

Just focusing on adding weight and reps on your big 4 lifts. Also what kind of power are you wanting to develop?

Some will hate me for saying this. But if you want to develop power in the slow lifts you get stronger in the slow lifts. Now say if you're wanting to generate violent hip extension for football or vertical jumping or whatever. You may need to practice those skills.

/internetsamuraipost

[LimieJosh]

In Practical Programming, I see that a good way to work on power is to do 50-80% of 1RM, 3-5 reps, lifting as fast as possible, but how do I actually implement this?

In this thread you have described:
- problems with form on squat limiting your progress on dead
- Problems with form on the clean that result in near injury and them being dropped from your program

Your press is also only 55% of your bench, a gap which typically suggests a form issue.

I would suggest you dont go anywhere near doing reps for speed, or anything more complicated like power training until you address these fundamentals.

[RobCor]

What's wrong with your back/form that messes up your deadlift and is it related to your cleans? Maybe you should fix your form and learn how to do the movements instead of trying to change the program.

[peacerenity]

I'm not sure exactly what's wrong with my squats. It could have to do with the bar not being low enough, it could have to do with my abs being weak, it could have to do with my not holding my breath during reps. Since I don't have a coach to look at me and don't have a video camera to take a video and put on here, I'm limited to my own inexperienced self-diagnosis, and can't tell how low is low enough, how weak is too weak, etc. All I know is that squats usually fatigue my lower back more than they do my legs and that my squats have always been my strongest lift.

Looking at the strength standards chart, my bench and deadlift are both right at intermediate, my press is right at novice, and my squat is almost at advanced. So I'm not sure if it's my deadlift that's weak or my squat that is strong. I'll experiment with my press today to see if I can figure out a form issue.

I see what you guys mean about mastering the fundamentals before working on power. I hadn't noticed that the power discussion was in the intermediate programming section. I'm wanting to work on my power for my sport, as well as because I've always had a terrible vertical jump, but since practice doesn't start until mid-October, I have plenty of time.

[Les Hahn]

So I'm thinking about incorporating some power work into my routine. Here are my current stats:

Height: 6'1
Weight: 216
Squat: 3 x 5 x 335
Bench Press: 3 x 5 x 200
Deadlift: 1 x 5 x 315 (I know it's low--form issues on my squat always wear out my lower back and thus limit my deadlift--I'm working on it)
Overhead Press: 3 x 5 x 110

I have two questions.

1. Is this considered messing with the program, and thus something to be avoided, or at least postponed until later?

2. How do I actually implement this without power cleans? I've tried doing it on several occasions and have almost messed up my back, so those are out for now. In Practical Programming, I see that a good way to work on power is to do 50-80% of 1RM, 3-5 reps, lifting as fast as possible, but how do I actually implement this? Do I do a dedicated "power" day once a week? Do I lower normally and accelerate quickly, or do both quickly? Will lifting as fast as I can with barbells mean having to decelerate to keep the bar in my hands, and thus necessitate use of a Smith machine and doing bench throws, jump squats, etc.? Etc.

I am doing the split routine "Woojus Geeshman" out of the back of the book... check it out. If you did a power day on TM, you would just replace the intensity day. I have been doing 50-60% 1RM, 50% one week, then 55%, and lastly 60%. I then reset back to 50% based off of a new calculated 1RM. This is the way Westside does it, but I believe the book says to use 50-75%.

You literally will try to move the weight as fast as possible. Do not slow the weight down when you are nearing the top. It does jar my elbows a little benching, but other than that I haven't had any issues doing dynamic squat or DL. I do dynamic DL instead of powercleans, you could probably do high pulls too. I also do dynamic push press (is there any other way?), but again I use the lighter weights. For all of my speed sets so far, I have been doing everything from a pause. I do paused closegrip bench, and box squats. That might be helping too, since I start the explosive movement under control from a dead stop. The book doesn't say you have to do this though, so do what you feel is best.

As for messing with the program, if you are still doing LP from SS, don't add speed work just yet. If you are doing TM, then you can add the speed work. It seems to be helping me, but I have only been doing it for a month... just so you know.

Edit: If you can't do powercleans on the SS program, I would do some kind of barbell row, like a pendlay row. You could do high pulls too. Best of luck figuring this out!

[peacerenity]

Thanks for the suggestion. I'll probably do something like it when I finish LP. I guess I should add that I've been doing chinups and dips as well, with chinups subbed in for power cleans.

Edit: Callador, do you lower the weight as fast as possible too, or go down slowly and then explode out of the bottom?

[Les Hahn]

Pretty much normally, but probably a little faster than my working sets since the weight is light. I do the squats off a box and the bench from a dead stop, so that limits how fast I let them down as well.