Stiff Bars and Power Cleans

[Steven Tammen]

Hello all,

The general consensus for most lifts seems to go as such:

1) A stiff bar (larger diameter, less whip) is desirable for squat, bench, and overhead press.
2) A bar with whip (28mm Oly bar) is desirable for snatch and clean & jerk. (Duh.)
3) Deadlifts, especially heavy deadlifts, depend more on knurling aggressiveness than whip. Stiffness is mostly just preference and doesn't matter one way or another.

I couldn't turn up any similar guidance on power cleans. I'm pretty new to weightlifting in general (book on the way!), so I apologize if this is self-evident once you get into things more... but is having a stiff bar (e.g., this one) at all a disadvantage when doing power cleans?

Thanks

[Chebass88]

A power clean is nothing more than a full-clean caught in a half or quarter squat position. That's all there is to it. Any bar you would use for OLY lifts would be good for power cleans.

For the most part, most general bars are okay to use for power cleans.

[Tom Campitelli]

A stiff bar will not get in your way for power cleans. If you get into weightlifting as a sport and are cleaning over 300 lbs, you will probably prefer a 28 mm bar. Until that time, just find a good bar that spins. An aggressive center knurling may bother your neck for cleans, but aside from that, whip will not be important.

[MWittmer]

As long as it spins halfway decently, as a beginner, you'll be fine. As you improve, if you ever get to use an Elieko (or other quality) bar, you'll definitely notice the difference.

[Daverin]

Like said, for general training purposes, a bar that can spin so you don't have to deal with a weighted turnover is good enough, and most any half-decent bar is made to spin anymore. At this point, using whippy bars for the full lifts can be important for competition purposes: Olympic lifters have to learn to coordinate their actions with the oscillations of the bar to enhance their performance. But its not necessarily the kind of thing that is important for training power.

[MattJ.D.]

A stiff bar will not get in your way for power cleans. If you get into weightlifting as a sport and are cleaning over 300 lbs, you will probably prefer a 28 mm bar. Until that time, just find a good bar that spins. An aggressive center knurling may bother your neck for cleans, but aside from that, whip will not be important.

FWIW I second this. Although doing the lifts on a 28mm bar is like night and day. Especially if your regular bar is some shitty 32mm

[Steven Tammen]

Thanks for all the thoughts. Right now I'm looking at this as a long-term hobby, so competing in Olympic lifting isn't something on my agenda at the moment. I'm not planning on getting some 32mm bar from China: from what I've heard, spending less than $250 on a bar is a bad idea. Right now I'm looking at many of Rogue's options, as well as some from American Barbell and Vulcan. If only Rogue hadn't stopped selling the Matt Chan bar in chrome...

Just to clarify:

1) Does whip make Olympic lifts easier to do, or does it simply allow you lift more weight? For example, with a stiff bar maybe I could snatch 200, but with a 28mm bar I could snatch 225? Do you sacrifice "comfort" with a stiff bar or just bigger numbers?

2) Would I ever get to the point in SS where I'd really be cleaning enough for it to make a difference anyhow? What level of weight would you have to put on an "average" 28mm bar for the whip to become noticeable? (Cleans are more focused on reps than 1 RM in SS, correct?)

[MBasic]

Thanks for all the thoughts. Right now I'm looking at this as a long-term hobby, so competing in Olympic lifting isn't something on my agenda at the moment. I'm not planning on getting some 32mm bar from China: from what I've heard, spending less than $250 on a bar is a bad idea. Right now I'm looking at many of Rogue's options, as well as some from American Barbell and Vulcan. If only Rogue hadn't stopped selling the Matt Chan bar in chrome...

Just to clarify:

1) Does whip make Olympic lifts easier to do, or does it simply allow you lift more weight? For example, with a stiff bar maybe I could snatch 200, but with a 28mm bar I could snatch 225? Do you sacrifice "comfort" with a stiff bar or just bigger numbers?

2) Would I ever get to the point in SS where I'd really be cleaning enough for it to make a difference anyhow? What level of weight to have to put on an "average" 28mm bar for the whip to become noticeable? (Cleans are more focused on reps than 1 RM in SS, correct?)

One would have to learn how to use the whip.
The snatch (the example you give) . . . I don't think there's nothing there to be gained from whip, because your hands are so close to the plates, there's no whip effect. Weights used are way less.

The Jerk, they SAY if you time it right, you can push upwards at the bottom of the jerk dip while the bar is rebounding upwards.
(Klokov at seminars say this is bullshit under 200kg . . . jokingly. Basically, any effect doesn't really happen until ultra heavy weights. That Novices shouldn't worry about this at all)

Same with clean, if you had a rock solid bottom position, and time it correctly, you can start to rise as the weights are actually rebounding upwards somewhat. . . .

I'd imagine there's a trade off here too, do it wrong . . .time it late, and then have to fight weights moving downwards after a bounce.

The 28mm thing is nice from snatches because your grip in compromised much more than a clean or DL grip . . . 2 1/2 fingers around the bar essentially.

But no, there's no 10% increase or anything like that . . .maybe a percent or three . . .IF you know how to do it . . . AND you are using some appreciable weights.

2) Would I ever get to the point in SS where I'd really be cleaning enough for it to make a difference anyhow? What level of weight would you have to put on an "average" 28mm bar for the whip to become noticeable? (Cleans are more focused on reps than 1 RM in SS, correct?)

if you mean the SS LP program, no . . . you'll just be using power cleans . . . no "squat cleans" or jerks . . .

[Steven Tammen]

But no, there's no 10% increase or anything like that . . .maybe a percent or three . . .IF you know how to do it . . . AND you are using some appreciable weights.

If I'm reading you correctly, the function of whip is to slightly increase the amount of weight individuals can lift when a) they know what they are doing, and b) they are lifting "heavy enough" weights. Therefore, whippy bars do not matter at all if all you are doing is training power cleans and don't care about lifting slightly heavier amounts of weight (i.e., you don't "lose anything" by doing so except the 3% capacity to lift heavier things)? Is this right?

[John Hanley]

Is this right?

Yup.