Pull-ups: weighted vs to-the-chest.

[Cail]

How important is the max. possible ROM on pull-ups (bar to the chest) as opposed to the weight used, for overall pulling strength gains? I'm asking cause i can do to-the-chests unweighted or with some meager 10-15 pounds added, but if i try to add more weight, all i can do is bar to the chin. Currently doing 3x5 with 45# added. Is it worth it to reset to bodyweight or smth like that and try to add weight doing to-the-chests, or just keep adding weight with the to-the-chins?

As for the programming, i'm doing 3x5 weighted pullups on Mondays (progressing with weight), unweighted chinups on Wednesday for max reps, and horizontal (chest supported) rows on Friday, working up to a max set of 5.

[yorick]

My personal opinion, I don't know why you wouldn't use the same range of motion on weighted as you do unweighted.

I prefer chest to the bar, and I won't use a weight that I can't still get my chest to the bar with.

You are activating more muscle when you use the more full ROM. If you are just doing them for some gunz, then it probably doesn't matter. I think U.S. Military standards only require the chin over the bar, so it's obviously good enough for a lot of people. But just because it's good for a lot of people doesn't mean it is best for your goals.

[Cail]

My personal opinion, I don't know why you wouldn't use the same range of motion on weighted as you do unweighted.

I prefer chest to the bar, and I won't use a weight that I can't still get my chest to the bar with.

You are activating more muscle when you use the more full ROM. If you are just doing them for some gunz, then it probably doesn't matter. I think U.S. Military standards only require the chin over the bar, so it's obviously good enough for a lot of people. But just because it's good for a lot of people doesn't mean it is best for your goals.

I'm not doing them for the gunz, i'm doing them for upper body pulling strength. I wrestle and do some grappling, going to transition to grappling as a main sport.

I tried to do linear (weekly) progression on chest-to-the-bars, but after several weeks (basically already with 20 lbs added) i could only complete chin-to-the-bars.

My personal best with weighted pull-ups was 60lbs added to the 180lbs bodyweight for 1x6 (chin to the bar). That was 6 months ago, after that i injured my shoulder and couldn't do pull-ups anymore. Now working back up, currently at the 45lbs added to 175lbs bodyweight for 3x5, doesn't look like i'm going to stall any time soon. But that's only with chin to the bar.

[kinski]

You have a decent base level of chinning strength. I would suggest PRIMARILY going full range of motion, because I have found that in the long run, getting better at things you suck at makes you stronger. If you do chins twice a week, I would suggest going completely unweighted on one day, using a shoulder width grip, and just work on staying very tight and very strict. You could even try progressing to L Pullups. Trust me, being able to do 20 strict L Pullups is far more impressive than doing 5 neutral grip chins w/ 70 lbs.
On the other day, you could go ahead and crank out sets of 5 with a neutral grip, swinging a couple plates off your waist. Just keep the form reasonable, and don't get too emotional and hurt your wrist/shoulder/elbows.
That's my current chinning routine. Mondays I do heavy weighted chins with fat gripz (chest to bar), Thursdays I do three sets of L Pullups to failure.

[Tom Campitelli]

Trust me, being able to do 20 strict L Pullups is far more impressive than doing 5 neutral grip chins w/ 70 lbs.

I would argue both are pretty difficult to do. As for which is more impressive, yo no se.

[Dastardly]

Do both. I find pull ups/chins respond well to variety. Heavy weighted ones, high rep unweighted, chins sometimes, pull ups other times, perhaps a back off set of narrow grip or heavy DB rows.

[Cail]

Do both. I find pull ups/chins respond well to variety. Heavy weighted ones, high rep unweighted, chins sometimes, pull ups other times, perhaps a back off set of narrow grip or heavy DB rows.

In an ideal world - that would be the best. But there's only so much recovery potential. Even these 3 workouts/week are only possible since i'm on semi-break from wrestling training, once i'm back full time i'll have to cut it to 2 probably. Also, i find that i only, only, ONLY ever progress when i use increasing loading that i can reasonably control. That means doing consistently the same movements week to week with progressive load.

Well, i guess what i will do is doing the Wednesday's unweighted chin-ups to the chest and see how it goes (never tried max reps to the chest). Wednesday is supposed to be light/recovery day, hope doing it to the chest won't mess with it.

[Cail]

You have a decent base level of chinning strength. I would suggest PRIMARILY going full range of motion, because I have found that in the long run, getting better at things you suck at makes you stronger. If you do chins twice a week, I would suggest going completely unweighted on one day, using a shoulder width grip, and just work on staying very tight and very strict. You could even try progressing to L Pullups. Trust me, being able to do 20 strict L Pullups is far more impressive than doing 5 neutral grip chins w/ 70 lbs.
On the other day, you could go ahead and crank out sets of 5 with a neutral grip, swinging a couple plates off your waist. Just keep the form reasonable, and don't get too emotional and hurt your wrist/shoulder/elbows.
That's my current chinning routine. Mondays I do heavy weighted chins with fat gripz (chest to bar), Thursdays I do three sets of L Pullups to failure.

L-Pullups sound interesting, but what they seem to do is adding ab work instead of increasing pulling load, no? I already do dragon flags and hanging leg raises.

[Dastardly]

Also, i find that i only, only, ONLY ever progress when i use increasing loading that i can reasonably control. That means doing consistently the same movements week to week with progressive load.

Fair enough, I am the opposite though. I respond much better to frequent heave 'arm pulling' training, the more the better. It really doesn't affect recovery at all. I might not do pull ups the day before deadlifts where I wanted to hit a decent weight but for everything else I like to go as hard and often as possible.

[kinski]

L-Pullups sound interesting, but what they seem to do is adding ab work instead of increasing pulling load, no? I already do dragon flags and hanging leg raises.

Keeping your legs locked out in front of you changes your balance during the movement. To maintain the locked position, you can not swing back and forth. Ideally, no back and forth movement would occur at all. This forces you to keep your whole back incredibly tight to prevent moving backwards as you move up and down.
I am not gonna get on a soapbox about how everybody should do them. There is nothing magic about them. I just think there an awesome chinning variation that builds up great back strength and carries over well to athletic movements.
Honestly, if your time is limited, you could get by damn well by piling on the weight and doing chins with a slightly decreased range of motion. Just do what makes you excited to hit the gym and keep progressing. No need to do everything right away.