Question about carbs pre workout

[anticausal]

I'm coming down from being 260 lb early this year to 215 lb right now (6'1"). I've been doing SS since April, but I'm definitely guilty of YNDTP, since I've been on a deficit most of the time.

I've read that it's best to get some carbs in before workouts when dieting. The first few months I didn't worry about it, but I figured I'd give it a try and see if I can make some better strength gains. However, it makes me feel much worse. I feel light headed, shaky, and often can't complete sets. But if I train fasted (like 4 hours, not a long term fast) with some BCAAs or just some whey, I feel much more energetic.

My question is, what the hell is going on? This is like the opposite of what everyone says should be the case. I can't make sense of it.

Thanks.

[Jordan Feigenbaum]

When you had carbs pre workout, what was your carb source and where did this meal fall for you in the context of the day?

[anticausal]

Workout days usually start like this:

-10:30am - 330 kcal breakfast - 30g carb / 10g fat / 30g protein
-1:30pm - 1000 kcal lunch - 80g carb / 40g fat / 60g protein
-4:30pm - 200 kcal Quest Bar - 9g fat / 20g protein

Then my workout is usually around 7:30pm. The following are 3 pre-workout meals that I've tried:

1) 200g fruit (orange, nectarine, etc) + 25g whey @ 7:00pm
2) 60g oats (weighed dry) + 10g sugar + 25g whey @ 6:30pm
3) 25g whey only @7:00pm

1) is what I did when I started out and it's what I did for the longest time. It works ok, and I usually get through workouts just fine. 2) is a fucking disaster. I feel ridiculously weak during the workout, and get dizzy/light headed. Low blood sugar or something. I also get weaker as the workout progresses. Last time I did this, I had to skip my deadlifts because I felt so weak during warmups.

3) is the best. I start with some stomach hunger, but no weakness or light headedness. Then about 30 minutes into the workout I get a huge spike of energy out of nowhere. I feel great during my last lift, and have plenty of energy to do 4 quarter mile runs at 7.5mph spaced over 20 min (walking in between) before my post workout meal.

I'm fine with doing 3) for a while longer, as I'm still around 20% bf. I don't really want to eat big for strength until I'm down to about 15% bf. I just wondered why 2) is such a disaster considering everyone says carbs are so good pre-workout. I know next to nothing about human physiology, but my intuitive guess is that 3) promotes fat burn and I end up getting more calories during my workout from fat than from the carbs in 2). Is that what's happening?

[Jordan Feigenbaum]

It sounds like a little bit of reactive hypoglycemia (low blood sugar to me), perhaps augmented or mitigated by caffeine (or lack thereof) periworkout. We'd need some blood sugar levels to be sure.

I think what I'd try and do is keep going with the quest bar and slowly add in some oatmeal (10g) to see if you can train yourself to be okay with them. There's no doubt in my mind that carbs pre workout >>>>> no carbs pre workout, provided you can eliminate this undesired response.

[anticausal]

I looked into 'reactive hypoglycemia' and you're right, that sounds absolutely spot on. I'll try tweaking the carb intake and see what happens. Might also move the timing of the meal to closer to the workout and see if that helps.

Also, could the meal being pure carb/protein be a problem? Could adding some fat to the meal help? I've always heard that you shouldn't eat fats pre-workout so I keep them out. But that might just be bro-science I've picked up in the past.

[risepmj]

Hey jordan,I've read some article that not eating carbs before training make us to more sensitive to insulin
response,so that we can more gains if we taking a carbs only after training.
Does it bro-science?

And did you have a benefits taking Waxy mazie with BCAA on a non training day?(between meal protocol)

[Jordan Feigenbaum]

Also, could the meal being pure carb/protein be a problem? Could adding some fat to the meal help? I've always heard that you shouldn't eat fats pre-workout so I keep them out. But that might just be bro-science I've picked up in the past.

Could be, as fats slow GI transit time in a somewhat dose-dependent fashion. You might try adding a bit of fat or fiber to slow it down and see if that helps.

Hey jordan,I've read some article that not eating carbs before training make us to more sensitive to insulin
response,so that we can more gains if we taking a carbs only after training.
Does it bro-science?

Yes, it's bro science. Actually, going low carbohydrate for extended periods of time makes a person's muscle tissue more insulin resistant (so that sugar can get other places). In the short term, however, I doubt it does much.

And did you have a benefits taking Waxy mazie with BCAA on a non training day?(between meal protocol)

Ease of calorie intake, mainly, and decrease subjective soreness.

[risepmj]

Ease of calorie intake, mainly, and decrease subjective soreness.

But one more curiousity.If i take a carbs every 1:30~2:00 hours with adding a Waxy+BCAA protocol,There is no worrying about getting a diabete?
It seems chronically exposed to the carbs.though i want more gainz.

And how do you feel training alone at house?Seriously wonder.

[Jordan Feigenbaum]

Is there a worry about an athlete who is training intensely enough to maintain his body weight on a high amount of carbohydrates for developing diabetes? No, not really. This person tends to clear sugar form the blood stream very quickly so it''s not a big deal and the time exposure to elevated blood sugar is not very long in this application

[Mugaaz]

On the subject of carbs pre-workout, seen it recommended here multiple time to do 1/2 to full bottle of gatorade pre-workout if you are on low/zero carb diet before training sessions. I tried this multiple times and didn't find it to make any difference I could notice. If I ate a carb heavy meal 3-5 hours before it was very noticeable though.