Squat lockout: knees all the way back or in normal standing position

[Plato209]

Hey Rip, I am trying to find an answer to whether we are supposed to lockout our knees all the way back at the top of a squat or lock them out to our normal relaxed standing posture; around a few inches in front of total lockout.

It wasn't clear enough in the SS DVDs, and BBT3 only gave me this line:

"Your best power is achieved when your hips continue straight up out of the bottom, with your tibias, anchored by your gastrocs, serving as anchors for your hamstrings; your glutes and external rotators holding your femurs out; your hamstrings, glutes, and adductors contracting against the pelvis to produce hip extension against a constant back angle; your quads producing knee extension; and then your knees and hips locking out simultaneously at the top."

Though that still does not make the distinction.

I tried asking people in real life: my physiotherapist said it was harmful to go all the way back, and a weightlifting coach at my gym was very hesitant in his answer to go all the way back. I couldn't find anything on this forum, and the rest of the internet argues both ways.

Where do you stand?

[Mark Rippetoe]

My standing-erect posture does not place my knees "a few inches in front of total lockout". Stand anatomically erect without hyperextending your knees. That is all.

[51M0n]

It's stupid on my behalf, but for the last couple of years I was in the habit of not quite locking out my hips at the top, meaning that I always had more of a forward lean at the top than I otherwise should have (even though I actually thought that I was locked out). I now make an intentional effort to squeeze my glutes at the top to really lock out fully between each reps, it makes a noticeable difference in how easy it is to get set up at the top when fully locked out vs ever so slightly unlocked. Would also suck to get red lighted at a meet for not locking out fully at the top.

[Mark Rippetoe]

I now make an intentional effort to squeeze my glutes at the top to really lock out fully between each reps, it makes a noticeable difference in how easy it is to get set up at the top when fully locked out vs ever so slightly unlocked.

I'd like to see a video of this. I don't like that cue at all, because it tends to produce a spinal flexion at lockout almost every time it's done.

[Plato209]

My standing-erect posture does not place my knees "a few inches in front of total lockout". Stand anatomically erect without hyperextending your knees. That is all.

Thanks. I meant that when I stand erect normally I can still push (hyperextend) my knees maybe 1-2 inches further back if I tried, and this is what the weightlifting coach suggested. Though I will no longer do this and will do as you suggested.

[Mark E. Hurling]

This thread made me think of something that gives me some lower back trouble when I stand around watching some things for several hours at a stretch at work. My lower back gets achy. It helps if I stand with slightly unlocked knees because when I don't think about that I lock them out rigid and I can feel my glutes tighten up and transmit that to the low back.

Keeping them slightly unlocked seems to slow the onset of the back issues and I think maybe it keeps my hamstrings at the pelvic attachments from creating some lordosis there. I'm not sure how or even if the topic of this thread is related to my issue but there seems to be some superficial linkage.

[51M0n]

I'd like to see a video of this. I don't like that cue at all, because it tends to produce a spinal flexion at lockout almost every time it's done.

This is a video from my last set of 3x5 today.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Think about what hip extension actually means. You are not fully extending your hips at the top. Stand up straight.

[JB1981]

It's like you are pulling your knees back to extend rather than using your hips to stand up straight.

[poppunk]

51M0n's video brings up something I haven't been able to resolve from reading the second and third editions of SS. If the bar path is to be vertical, how should one stand with the bar over the center of the foot at the top? Figure 2-50 in the third edition is shown from the side and the bar has horizontal movement from the top position to the bottom. Is this vertical enough or is this because of the light weight used (and the fact that it's for demonstrating knee position and not bar path)? Figure 2-4 (right) seems to show how it should look with locked legs. Figure 2-21 has the bar slightly behind the center of the foot with bent knees.

Additionally, is the proper cue to improve 51M0n's knee movement out of the hole to keep shoving the knees out harder or is something else occurring? I ask this because it has been a problem for me.