Do early novices need 6000 calories a day?

[Kregna]

Not a petty criticism of Rippetoe but a genuine question

I've read the books, read the clarification article and have seen 6k calories recommended quite a few times and (I think) I followed it a few years ago when I originally did the novice programme. I got kinda fat and not exactly huge (Squatting 140kg 3x5, benching 90kg 3x5, deadlifting 160ishkg 1x5) before moving to an intermediate programme. A few years later after much off and on gym time I was able to get to numbers higher than previous INTERMEDIATE programme numbers doing novice progression with tweaks (e.g. 3 reps instead of 5) on less calories and being less fat

So my question... has anyone found 6k calories necessary? At the time I told my friend it was, because I ate 6k and progressed. But looking back I think 4-5k would've been sufficient, and this was when the workouts got pretty damn hard. When you are the really skinny beginner that 6k is suggested for, it seems like that is the time you need even less calories because:

a. your workouts are easy, with gains coming from becoming familiar with the movements
b. you're very skinny and even something like 3.5k - 4k good calories a day will see you grow

Thoughts? Necessary or overkill? I am 6'2 and 230lbs but do not eat 6k calories a day

[Clay Simczyk]

Try this again.
http://startingstrength.com/articles...n_rippetoe.pdf

"Eating correctly may mean 6000 calories/day with a gallon of whole milk, or it may mean 3500 calories/day on a paleo-type lower carb no-dairy diet, depending on your initial body composition."

[Kregna]

Try this again.
http://startingstrength.com/articles...n_rippetoe.pdf

No. Tell me which bit you're referring to

I know the recommendation is not for guys weighing 200lbs. My point was that even now at 230lbs I do not think I have ever really needed 6k a day, including when I started training at 160lbs

[Mugaaz]

It is needed for chronically underweight males in their teens or early twenties. The problem is, they won't do it, then complain they can't gain weight. Meanwhile fatties use it as an excuse to overeat when they don't need to, then complain they are getting fatter. Also, it requires that you are actually doing the program and training.

[Clay Simczyk]

No. Tell me which bit you're referring to

I know the recommendation is not for guys weighing 200lbs. My point was that even now at 230lbs I do not think I have ever really needed 6k a day, including when I started training at 160lbs

Look at the edit. It literally took me 10 seconds to find it.

[Kregna]

It is needed for chronically underweight males in their teens or early twenties.

But why would it be? Such people could eat 3k calories and probably grow... definitely 4k would permit growth

Look at the edit. It literally took me 10 seconds to find it.

But who is the 6k for? I think almost no one needs 6k to do (especially the early stages of) a novice progression. And once you're past the early stages you will not be really underweight guy, anyway

[Murelli]

But why would it be? Such people could eat 3k calories and probably grow... definitely 4k would permit growth



But who is the 6k for? I think almost no one needs 6k to do (especially the early stages of) a novice progression. And once you're past the early stages you will not be really underweight guy, anyway

Kregna, have you ever read Starr's article about HLM? He says that when he was 17 and was serving in the air force, he grew both in size and height from his training and his big eating.

I think the target audience for 6k is pubescent skinny male teens, the people who are swimming in a sea of testosterone.

[Clay Simczyk]

But why? But why? But why?

Because we're not clones. Dave Tate was on 12,000 calories a day at one point in his training. The amount of calories you eat depends on how much weight you want to gain or lose. The exact number is up to the individual to figure out. Try reading something instead of just staring at it while you try and figure out a "but why" question.

[Kregna]

But why? But why? But why?

Because we're not clones. Dave Tate was on 12,000 calories a day at one point in his training. The amount of calories you eat depends on how much weight you want to gain or lose. The exact number is up to the individual to figure out. Try reading something instead of just staring at it while you try and figure out a "but why" question.

Try thinking things through logically rather than repeating the same argument. And try understanding my question before you start with your sassy shit

Why is Dave Tate relevant? Which novices need 6000 calories a day? I would argue the skinnier kids need LESS calories because they are likely skinny due to eating less in the first place. I could be wrong and some could be extremely active and need the extra calories

Kregna, have you ever read Starr's article about HLM? He says that when he was 17 and was serving in the air force, he grew both in size and height from his training and his big eating.

I think the target audience for 6k is pubescent skinny male teens, the people who are swimming in a sea of testosterone.

No I'll have a look. But again I don't know why the skinny teenage kids need 6000 calories when they are skinny and probably can eat less and still grow

[kanahan]

My interpretation is that a tall, underweight young man may not NEED 6k to grow, but 6k would allow him to grow a lot faster than 4k or 5k. Ie. 20 - 10 pound jumps every workout for a long time, instead of 5 or micro loading after only a few weeks.

Early in my LP I was gaining weight quite fast at 2500cals, because I started from such a low base. But I had to start microloading the presses almost right away. Might not have happend if I had been on 3500-4500 cals from the start.