Olympic lifts as part of a "regular person's" training program

[mikeweinberg]

Hi Mark. The Starting Strength program generally doesn't include the snatch or the clean & jerk, although I know you coach them and encourage them, but likely for trainees who are well past the NLP.

Of course the internet is replete with footage of people doing these exercises with widely varying competence, loads, levels of success, embarrassing failures, and dangerous mishaps. And obviously, they are the "oly" lifts for a reason: they are the two competitive weightlifting events in the Summer Olympics, for the time being anyway.

It's obvious there are entire industries built up around these two exercises (and their ancestor, the clean & press), specialized equipment (most bars and plates are called olympic bars and plates), entire federations and competitions, methods of training them, and so forth. So no doubt they are a "big deal". They've also spawned newer-age exercises (e.g., the "overhead squat" and the "thruster" seem to have come about as ways to ease into and/or improve one's snatch / C&J)

But it strikes me that these exercises exist really for one reason: as a competitive device to demonstrate who is the strongest / most powerful person. i.e., who can heave the most weight up off the floor hold it above their head in a stabilized stance, using one of three methods (snatch, C&J, C&P). They may or may not be the optimal means to this competitive end, but I'm not going to debate that, so for this discussion, let's assume they are worthwhile for this purpose.

Here's what is perplexing me: more and more, these exercises are expanding in popularity as part of strength and conditioning training programs (mostly notably in CrossFit), and I really don't understand why. Due to their nature, these lifts seem to be dangerously contrary to the entire purpose of training in the first place, which to me is to get stronger / faster / more powerful, to be a generally more useful human while minimizing injury, and if one is over 40 years old, to help stave off death. I fail to see what benefits these exercises provide that can't be garnered from the squat, deadlift, press, bench press, powerclean, and chin-up. I really only see risk: higher potential for torn soft-tissue, broken bones, paralysis or death, stemming from the explosiveness of the movements and the fact that one is trying to hold maximal weight above one's head, precariously. Put another way, unless one is actually training to compete in the olympic lifts, I don't see a favorable risk/reward ratio to justify doing them. And to make matter worse, attempting to do these movements outside of a focused 1RM to 3RM approach (i.e., doing them "for reps" or "for time" while already fatigued) compounds the danger, which seems to also happen more frequently in the form of AMRAP, EMOM and other barbell complexes.

Am I missing something? Is there any reason for a "normal person" who is looking to get strong, stay healthy, be a more useful human, and stave off death to do the snatch or clean & jerk? Or for that matter, even an advanced-but-not-competitive strength trainee? Or does one get all one needs from the squat, deadlift, press, bench press, powerclean, and chin-ups? Just for reference, I'm 47 years old and have been lifting weights for over 30 years. My numbers are squat 3x5@415, deadlift 506x5, press 3x5@190, bench press 3x5@305; by no means am I a master of strength, but i'm not a newbie either.

[Mark Rippetoe]

If you want to be a competitive Olympic lifter, you obviously do the lifts. We use the power clean in our programs for everyone who can safely do them, for reasons explained in the book. But the competitive versions of the snatch and the C&J are not beneficial for the average trainee. The squat snatch and the full clean and jerk are neither worth the time it takes to learn them and the coaching they require, nor do they produce the training benefit available through the 4 primary lifts. That's why they are not in the program.

I think everybody that trains with barbells, and certainly everybody that coaches the barbell lifts, should train the snatch and C&J enough to be familiar with them, for completeness. Don't leave holes in your experience, you might learn something.

[francesco.decaro]

If you want to be a competitive Olympic lifter, you obviously do the lifts. We use the power clean in our programs for everyone who can safely do them, for reasons explained in the book. But the competitive versions of the snatch and the C&J are not beneficial for the average trainee. The squat snatch and the full clean and jerk are neither worth the time it takes to learn them and the coaching they require, nor do they produce the training benefit available through the 4 primary lifts. That's why they are not in the program.

I think everybody that trains with barbells, and certainly everybody that coaches the barbell lifts, should train the snatch and C&J enough to be familiar with them, for completeness. Don't leave holes in your experience, you might learn something.

I am curious, have you ever heard of anyone dying or being paralyzed because of a snatch or clean and jerk? Just sounds ridiculous to me.
The only dangerous lift that I can think of and where there is evidence is the bench press; plus people messing around with machines but it's usually nothing really dangerous.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Only the CrossFitter.

[Kazzin]

I am curious, have you ever heard of anyone dying or being paralyzed because of a snatch or clean and jerk? Just sounds ridiculous to me.
The only dangerous lift that I can think of and where there is evidence is the bench press; plus people messing around with machines but it's usually nothing really dangerous.

There was the lady in Mexico who died recently squatting to a bench on a smith machine. Sad video, but fairly instructive in regards to things not to do in the gym.

Also lots of gnarly videos of failed snatches and jerks dropped on the base of the neck. Never read about any of them resulting in paralysis, but I’m sure it can (and has) happened.

[Mark Rippetoe]

What about car wrecks? I've heard of those too.