Progression

[Chris76]

I can't help but ask . I ve read that linear progression tends to get lifters to progress to a certain point relative to their bodyweight. Aslo with consideration that their body fat percent are within a healthy range . I have to say that it makes sence that age, injuries and lifestyle backround can be factors, but my question have experienced couches or lifters found that linear progress runs out 2x bodyweight deadlift and 1.5x bodyweight squat, 1.25x bodyweight benchpress and .75x bodyweight overhead press ? I can't remember where I read this but I can't help but wonder if it tends to be true. I know Rip mentions Starting Strength will get your squat up to 315 If THE PROGRAM IS DONE CORRECTLY . Maybe it's my thinking that's a problem. I just can't help but wonder at age 41 and I am slightly short of 5 ft 5" I ve got my weight up to 145 approx. I am two weeks into the program. My question is really if experienced couches have that linear progress tends to run out at about a 1.5x bodyweight squat or is what I read somewhere bullshit?

[Pawn]

It will run out when you can't recover from the effort you exert.

When that is depends on genetics, age, and lifestyle. It's individual.

In terms of using body weight ratios during the lp aren't typically encouraged in what I have read... gaining mass and getting stronger is.

[OZ-USF-UFGator]

It will run out when you can't recover from the effort you exert.

When that is depends on genetics, age, and lifestyle. It's individual.

In terms of using body weight ratios during the lp aren't typically encouraged in what I have read... gaining mass and getting stronger is.

You said a lot and didn't even try to answer the question. You also pretend that there is infinite variability in results and that a normal distribution among young healthy people who do the program does not exist and therefore benchmarking is impossible.

I'd like to hear an experienced SS or other successful coach weigh in on this as I'd bet the farm that at the macro level for healthy population, the SS results distribution is approximately normally distributed.

[I_iz_a_fatass]

I just can't help but wonder at age 41 and I am slightly short of 5 ft 5" I ve got my weight up to 145 approx. I am two weeks into the program. My question is really if experienced couches have that linear progress tends to run out at about a 1.5x bodyweight squat or is what I read somewhere bullshit?

At 46 I ran it to a just-above bodyweight bench, 1.5 BW squat, and terrible 1.5 BW deadlift. Deads are by far my worst lift by proportion.

You also pretend that there is infinite variability in results and that a normal distribution among young healthy people who do the program does not exist and therefore benchmarking is impossible.

There's too man confounding variables to make a reasonable assessment - from DTFP to NDTFP, age, height, recovery (both potential and reality), genetic factors, diet, body mass and type, etc.

[Dalton Clark]

Everybody needs to calm down. This is actually an interesting question. Now, there isn't enough data to really address this in a productive and scientific way. I hear Jordan is working on that. Now, I am going to say that with population statistics with very large variables, the bell curve tends to be the dominate statistical distribution. If you were to just start looking at the numbers that people tend to end up at (assuming under 40 or something, not normalizing to age but taking an appropriate subset of the population) I would hazard a guess that you would end up a bull curve of some kind that would have some loose correlation to body weight. HOWEVER - and this is a giant caveat - this completely breaks down with extremely heavy individuals. A 350 pound individual often has a body weight squat but a half body weight bench press near the start of their advanced novice training. Just from anecdote, a reasonable body fat percentage human male who is doing the program will end up with a 3 sets of 5 weight of at least 315 pounds. Or around 315 pounds. Now, to address all of the concerns with the variables. Well there are a lot but what should we be normalizing with regards to? Age, weight, body composition, and height seem to be good things to normalize against.

This makes the following argument: If someone is doing the program correctly, and is of a reasonable body composition, will we notice a 2 x deadlift, 1.5 x squat, 1.25 x bench, and .75 x press? I would argue. . .very loosely. . that there be a relationship between body weight and the end lift numbers but these exact values may not be correct.

So even if we had a standard distribution of sufficient sample size to be able to distill the correct "average" expectations after a linear progression. . .and they were 2x, 1.5x, 1.25x, and .75x. Does this matter at all? No, no it doesn't. Are they maybe good goals? Yes. 1 plate, 2 plates, 3 plates, 4 plates is a great goal. so is 100,200,300,400 for someone who has never lifted a bar in their life. For a more intermediate individual 200,300,400,500 might be their goal. But for purposes of novice programming, trying to assign a time when your particular progression will end is a waste of time. There are way more markers that you are nearing the end of your novice progression than the number that you are lifting. From constantly feeling like something is sore or not 100%, that you aren't recovered 100%, from not being able to add 5 pounds to your squat for 3 sessions in a row after a reset or two. So yes, I agree that there is likely a standard distribution if we normalized to some appropriate variables but I disagree with the sentiment that this is at all useful.

[Pawn]

You said a lot and didn't even try to answer the question. You also pretend that there is infinite variability in results and that a normal distribution among young healthy people who do the program does not exist and therefore benchmarking is impossible.

I'd like to hear an experienced SS or other successful coach weigh in on this as I'd bet the farm that at the macro level for healthy population, the SS results distribution is approximately normally distributed.

The data is there but only with respect to increase in strength and total strength.

WNDTP | Kunkel, Racculia, and Wisneski

What we know is that statements like "200 lbs on your squat depending on how young, healthy, and male you are" exist. BW measures aren't used because the program is about getting bigger and stronger. They will tell the OP to gain (and continue to gain) weight. Gaining weight will make you stronger... it also will (eventually) reduce your bodyweight ratios.

You will note the OP asked if his thinking was the problem. I pointed out how the books, articles, etc tend to think about it... which is "it runs out when it runs out". There are other training methods and programs after linear.

Should the OP be able to squat 3 plates with enough effort and training?... assuming he has okay genetics and medical history then sure.
Will the OP be able to squat 3 plates before is LP runs out?... no idea.

[cgeorg]

OP is 41 years old and 5'5". I don't want to be a pessimist but I would not expect a 315x5x3 squat at the end of even a well executed Starting Strength Novice Linear Progression.

@OP, the program is effective. Stick with it and reach your potential, whatever that may be. You'll probably hit some awesome milestones, and probably have some resets that feel like a step backwards. It's all worth it.

[OZ-USF-UFGator]

The data is there but only with respect to increase in strength and total strength.

WNDTP | Kunkel, Racculia, and Wisneski

What we know is that statements like "200 lbs on your squat depending on how young, healthy, and male you are" exist. BW measures aren't used because the program is about getting bigger and stronger. They will tell the OP to gain (and continue to gain) weight. Gaining weight will make you stronger... it also will (eventually) reduce your bodyweight ratios.

You will note the OP asked if his thinking was the problem. I pointed out how the books, articles, etc tend to think about it... which is "it runs out when it runs out". There are other training methods and programs after linear.

Should the OP be able to squat 3 plates with enough effort and training?... assuming he has okay genetics and medical history then sure.
Will the OP be able to squat 3 plates before is LP runs out?... no idea.

Interesting article; thanks for posting. When I first read it, I had a hunch that 175+ was a ridiculous squat starting weight. I've seen people with big legs shake like a beat dog from attempting 135 X 10, all 1/2 squats.

[Charlie Davies]

Chris76, I started at age 45, 5'10" and bw of 152 lbs.

First SS run ended with 145 lb squat, because I hurt myself squatting wrong.
Second SS run (with correct squats) ended at 215 lbs for 5x3, and a bodyweight of 181.

I refused to accept this result, however. I was sure SS was supposed to take me to a 315 squat!

But three subsequent attempts all ended at about that same point.

Don't be like me. When your SSLP ends, switch to intermediate programming. No one knows where your limits are, but you must find them, and work with them.

[Chris76]

Well been have some knee pain so I filmed my squats to notice my back angle was changing throughout my reps and 140lbs felt like a heavy squat morning . Yesterday went 5lbs anyway and slight back angle but focus on maintaining same back angle throughout the reps and doing the work with my hips and 145lbs didn't feel bad, I feel like I can go up 5 lbs next time . Being 5ft5" and with my femurs I don't think I need that much of a back angle. My deadlift is at 185lbs , strict over head press 80lbs and bench 120lbs and I think I ve gained 5lbs , I am alittle under 150lbs. I feel pretty good just some knee pains alittle bit , I think from my first couple weeks with my squat morning . I ve heard bad squat form will hurt your knees and I believe it, I ve aslo heard correct squats will fix knees. Has anyone experinced this? I don't want to stop squating but I really don't want to ruin my knees. Had no knee problems before starting or ever and now I get some aches and pains not when I am squating but after wards. I worked on fixing my form and will contine to do so but is this wise? You know I lot of people will say to stop squating or go lighter. I am I asking for problems if I continue or should I just work on perfecting my form and gettin stronger? Any thoughts?