Adding a light day (Advanced Novice-ish)

[cgeorg]

Hey there,

Recovery in 48 hours is getting very iffy, and the mental fatigue of squatting something heavier than I ever have every workout is starting to wear me out. I was thinking of moving to Advanced Novice, or a variation, and I was hoping for feedback on if the variation makes any sense.

Plan A
Monday: Squat/Bench/Deadlift for PRs
Wednesday: 80% Squat + Accessory (LTE, Chins, Back Extension... something I should add? Deadlift and press are my weakest lifts I think)
Friday: Squat/Press/Deadlift for PRs

OR

Plan B
M/W/F: PR Squat, Light Squat, PR Squat
A: PR Press + Accessory
B: PR Bench + Deadlift

Plan A gives twice a week deadlift and once a week press/bench/accessory.

Plan B is straight advanced novice (I think) 1.5x a week deadlift/press/bench/accessory.

In either case I will transition squat back to 5lb increments since I will only be doing it heavy 2x weekly, at least until I start failing. This would actually speed my progress up from my current 2.5lbs/workout average. I feel like the second option is better from a programming perspective, but the first gives me a full day of mental break - no PRs on the big lifts on Wednesday. Also if I need to miss a day one week and only do 2 workouts, I could skip the light day. Would I be overtraining deadlift doing it 2x/week? I am at the point now where my form is breaking down (back rounding) on my PR sets, so adding a lighter variation like SGDL or rack pulls or something might actually be a Good Thing?

My training log: CMG's Log

So tl;dr
Is Plan A a terrible idea?
If not, what would be the best accessory exercises to add to keep progress going on the main lifts?

[Miro]

If you can actually progress with heavy deadlifts twice a week, you are nowhere near advanced novice. Do you have PPST3?

[cgeorg]

I have both SSBT3 and PPST3, I just re-read the advanced novi section of PP. I got deadlifts to 280 on 1.5x weekly then reset to 265 to try to stop the back rounding. Worked back up to 285 my most recent workout - the back was good on the way up but is rounding again at 285. It happens right off the ground, so I will need to re-read the accessory section of SS to see which variation(s) will help with that part of the lift. I would probably leave the PR DL on Monday and add the DL accessory on Friday.

[Satch12879]

1. What's your body weight at? You're 6'-0", and if you're still sub 200 lbs, that needs to be worked on. You looked skinny in the recent video you posted.

2. Your numbers are somewhat low to be modifying your routine.

3. The last thing you want to do is add complexity and a bunch of accessory work, especially as you're still a novice. More complex is not better.

4. Have you considered coaching? Are you near a SSC? Worst case scenario is to post more form videos, this time to the coaches' section. I suspect your issues are more form related, than programming or recovery, although a lack of weight gain doesn't help. They usually are. I know mine were/are.

[cgeorg]

1. I've finally started getting some weight on, I'm up to 195-198 range. I can see my abs if I flex but not if I don't.
2. Yeah. Part of this is mental.
3. Yeah. I also feel weird going and doing 3 things and leaving, and Rip's templates seem to bring in stuff like chins and back extensions pretty early. But I am really too wiped after a full workout to do chins.
4. I have. I'm in Pittsburgh - the nearest SSC is in Latrobe I believe, a bit over an hour away. There is another gym, Celli's, that popped up in a search of the forums, and I've been considering heading there for a consult. Testimonials | Celli's Fitness Center

[Meshuggah]

1. What's your body weight at? You're 6'-0", and if you're still sub 200 lbs, that needs to be worked on. You looked skinny in the recent video you posted.

2. Your numbers are somewhat low to be modifying your routine.

3. The last thing you want to do is add complexity and a bunch of accessory work, especially as you're still a novice. More complex is not better.

4. Have you considered coaching? Are you near a SSC? Worst case scenario is to post more form videos, this time to the coaches' section. I suspect your issues are more form related, than programming or recovery, although a lack of weight gain doesn't help. They usually are. I know mine were/are.

Would you look at that... you sound exactly like Carson.

[Gerhard]

Would you look at that... you sound exactly like Carson.

Agreed.

Everything this guy just said is hilarious.

So hypothetical time for everybody reading. I wonder...

Let's say you were watching a video a guy posted, and the guy happened to be mildly chubby, in a way that most people wouldn't actually think of as being overweight. Just your kind of normal average guy, but to you, you are hyper-attuned to notice this about him, for some bizarre reason. So you raise this point to him immediately, you point out publicly to him that "hey you're X ft X and over XXXlbs, that needs to be worked on. You looked fat in the recent video you posted".

^ Would you think that is a socially acceptable thing to say to anybody?

Because the first point made in that post . Was akin to hazing them into doing something they may not want to do, or they may be uncomfortable doing, something that may not be one of their goals...

Fucking hell...

It's fucking Starting Strength, not "take all of Rip's personal opinions onboard literally" and refuse to interpret the subtleties in what he's saying:

- "A grown man weighs 200lbs" - Don't starve yourself skinny because of unrealistic modern male imagery that is prevalent in fitness magazines.

- "Doing the program MAY mean 6000kcal and a gallon of whole milk a day" - Doing the program will require you to eat enough to train effectively and to recover, that does not mean rapid weight gain necessarily, it also implies everybody's energy needs are different. A fitness magazine or a government RDA does not take individuality or training needs into account, therefore do not eat what an estimate or a calculator tells you to eat, eat what you need to eat to do the aforementioned. A gallon of whole milk a day may be a requirement, in the event you are looking to gain weight and struggle to eat and get the calories in necessary to do this. This is only one possible course of action, a simple idea that has been used popularly and effectively in the past. There are other options.

^ Come on.. It's easy folks...

Regardless, OP, what do you want?

If you want to gain weight, do it. If you don't want to gain weight, don't. All you need to do is to eat well enough to fuel and recover from your training sessions.

If you want to do a couple of fluff or bro exercises to add a little bit of enjoyment to your routine, do them. If that's what you like to do, and something that will keep you true to the progression of the big lifts, do it! There is no recovery boogeyman out to get you for doing some curls or dips or some vanity work here and there.

If you don't want to do chins, don't do them! They are quite useful, and there's a good reason why Rip includes them... But, they aren't a priority assistance exercise that is going to help right now. There's plenty of time for them later on if you want to incorporate them

If seeing a coach, if that's something you want to do, do it! It'll be a great opportunity to get some objective feedback.

[HandPlaneSteve]

Where in Pittsburgh? I'm in Monaca.

[Satch12879]

Agreed.

Everything this guy just said is hilarious.

So hypothetical time for everybody reading. I wonder...

Let's say you were watching a video a guy posted, and the guy happened to be mildly chubby, in a way that most people wouldn't actually think of as being overweight. Just your kind of normal average guy, but to you, you are hyper-attuned to notice this about him, for some bizarre reason. So you raise this point to him immediately, you point out publicly to him that "hey you're X ft X and over XXXlbs, that needs to be worked on. You looked fat in the recent video you posted".

^ Would you think that is a socially acceptable thing to say to anybody?

Because the first point made in that post . Was akin to hazing them into doing something they may not want to do, or they may be uncomfortable doing, something that may not be one of their goals...

Fucking hell...

It's fucking Starting Strength, not "take all of Rip's personal opinions onboard literally" and refuse to interpret the subtleties in what he's saying:

- "A grown man weighs 200lbs" - Don't starve yourself skinny because of unrealistic modern male imagery that is prevalent in fitness magazines.

- "Doing the program MAY mean 6000kcal and a gallon of whole milk a day" - Doing the program will require you to eat enough to train effectively and to recover, that does not mean rapid weight gain necessarily, it also implies everybody's energy needs are different. A fitness magazine or a government RDA does not take individuality or training needs into account, therefore do not eat what an estimate or a calculator tells you to eat, eat what you need to eat to do the aforementioned. A gallon of whole milk a day may be a requirement, in the event you are looking to gain weight and struggle to eat and get the calories in necessary to do this. This is only one possible course of action, a simple idea that has been used popularly and effectively in the past. There are other options.

^ Come on.. It's easy folks...

Regardless, OP, what do you want?

If you want to gain weight, do it. If you don't want to gain weight, don't. All you need to do is to eat well enough to fuel and recover from your training sessions.

If you want to do a couple of fluff or bro exercises to add a little bit of enjoyment to your routine, do them. If that's what you like to do, and something that will keep you true to the progression of the big lifts, do it! There is no recovery boogeyman out to get you for doing some curls or dips or some vanity work here and there.

If you don't want to do chins, don't do them! They are quite useful, and there's a good reason why Rip includes them... But, they aren't a priority assistance exercise that is going to help right now. There's plenty of time for them later on if you want to incorporate them

If seeing a coach, if that's something you want to do, do it! It'll be a great opportunity to get some objective feedback.

Whatever. Fuck off both of you. Martin, Old Man Bullshit Artist is no role model.

And Old Man, did you buy that logic book, yet? I mean buy and actually read, not like what you did with all of those other books you sold. "What no semi-nude pics of Louie? Physics? Multi-syllable words? Bah!"

The kid wanted advice. He got advice that any of the other SSCs or the less asshole posters, i.e., successful lifters, would give him. Simple solutions that have been repeated ad nauseum. Advice that's worked for lots and lots of people that nine times out of ten diagnose and address the issues. He wants to keep progressing on the program, which is not complicated and works for virtually everyone who does it. So do the fucking program.

[Meshuggah]

Whatever. Fuck off both of you. Martin, Old Man Bullshit Artist is no role model.

And Old Man, did you buy that logic book, yet? I mean buy and actually read, not like what you did with all of those other books you sold. "What no semi-nude pics of Louie? Physics? Multi-syllable words? Bah!"

The kid wanted advice. He got advice that any of the other SSCs or the less asshole posters, i.e., successful lifters, would give him. Simple solutions that have been repeated ad nauseum. Advice that's worked for lots and lots of people that nine times out of ten diagnose and address the issues. He wants to keep progressing on the program, which is not complicated and works for virtually everyone who does it. So do the fucking program.

It appears you've lost your cool little Eeyore. And Wow... You've been fantasizing about Louie in the nude?!?! (what a fag)
I also find it highly amusing that you consider yourself to be on the same level as a SSC, and consider yourself to be a "successful lifter."
You are the one that started all this with your little pot shots, and now you're all butthurt. You're a joke.