Tall, Older Lifter Squat Form Check

[brittf]

Dear Mark,

I am 47 years old and am fairly tall at 6'-5". I own all of your books (except for the new one, MOMG) and have read them several times through. I have watched every squat video in the sticky and attempted to understand your arguments.

I have taped one of my squats. This is a relatively light attempt for me (a hair over 85 kg), as I was working on form (my current 1RM is a fairly ugly 155 kg).

To the best I can discern, my knees DO NOT move forward at the bottom and I am not doing a standing leg press (as I keep my trunk angle pretty steep until late in the lift). I believe that I am keeping the tension on my hamstrings as long as possible and that I am focusing on hip drive.

I recognize that my stance is wider than you typically recommend, but I have personally found that a wider stance helps me avoid aggravating my right knee.

However, I have two questions plus any observations you might make:
(1) Is my trunk angle TOO severe at the bottom, as I have been told that I am a "Good Morning" squatter?
(2) Am I, in fact, getting good hip drive? I am not entirely clear on how to tell this (after reviewing the various squat videos) aside from keeping a steep back angle as late as possible and avoiding any forward movement of the knees.

Please excuse the red socks. I was deadlifting that day and have these red nylon socks that give me a bit of shin protection...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qA3G5Jo_48

I appreciate your consideration.

Regards,
brittf

[Mark Rippetoe]

I don't mind the socks, but could you please fix this video so I can watch it without a neck injury?

[paulr]

I imagine Rip's willingness to deal with sideways videos ended the first time he knocked his Scotch over turning his monitor sideways.

So as one tall, middle-aged lifter to another: yes, the back angle is too severe. Pause at the bottom. The barbell is clearly far forward of your own center of gravity. It would probably be more helpful to think of it in terms of keeping the bar path vertical and over your center of gravity, rather than worrying about angles and whatnot.

On the hip drive- try shoving your knees out more consciously as you drive up out of the hole.

[brittf]

I don't mind the socks, but could you please fix this video so I can watch it without a neck injury?

Dear Mark,

I literally do not know how to make the video rotate 90 degrees (the rotation buttons on the software are greyed out). I am a bit of a Luddite and dislike technology , however I will figure it out and repost.

Regards,
brittf

[brittf]

I imagine Rip's willingness to deal with sideways videos ended the first time he knocked his Scotch over turning his monitor sideways.

So as one tall, middle-aged lifter to another: yes, the back angle is too severe. Pause at the bottom. The barbell is clearly far forward of your own center of gravity. It would probably be more helpful to think of it in terms of keeping the bar path vertical and over your center of gravity, rather than worrying about angles and whatnot.

On the hip drive- try shoving your knees out more consciously as you drive up out of the hole.

Dear Paul,

Thank you for your reply. I will watch my videos carefully to ensure that the bar path is vertical (without worrying about how much I am bending). I have a very long torso (even for my height) and you would think that would tend to keep me more upright (in order to keep the bar over my mid-foot). Not sure why it doesn't. I might have argued that the long lever puts too great a bending moment and I can't keep my back up, but that doesn't seem right. This is a very easy weight for me and I have no trouble doing a "Good Morning" when I stand up. Need to "re-train" my visualization of the squat.

Good idea on shoving my knees out more consciously.

I will spend a couple of weeks at lighter weights (say 60-80% of my 1RM) to try to work out the bugs. Kind of bummed because I was really trying to hit the 300/400/500 targets (B/S/DL) by early next year. Oh well, form resets are probably a good thing...

All the best,
brittf

[brittf]

I don't mind the socks, but could you please fix this video so I can watch it without a neck injury?

Dear Mark,

Sorry about that. I finally found a way to rotate the video (had to export it from my application into another and ... blah blah blah, at least I finally got it done ).

Paul gave me two nice thoughts (forcing knees out, vertical bar path) that I will be working on.

Do you have any general comments that you would care to share?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iyudn...=youtube_gdata

Again, thanks for your time and patience.

Regards,
brittf

[Mark Rippetoe]

Finally. They look okay with the exception of the depth. This will improve when you shove your knees out more. All the way down. If you think they are out enough, do it more than you think you need to and see what happens. And look down at a point just in front of you on the floor. It will improve your hip drive quite a bit.

And stop calling us "Dear." We are all assholes here.

[brittf]

Finally. They look okay with the exception of the depth. This will improve when you shove your knees out more. All the way down. If you think they are out enough, do it more than you think you need to and see what happens. And look down at a point just in front of you on the floor. It will improve your hip drive quite a bit.

And stop calling us "Dear." We are all assholes here.

Hi Mark,

It is hard for me to skip salutations, but I will do my best .

Thank you for your time and expertise.

The depth part is interesting. I tend to alternate box squats with free squats in order to train myself to "sit back" and go to proper depth. The box squats are set so that I am clearly 2-3" below parallel.

On a box squat, I clearly break parallel AND I don't tend to lean forward quite as much.

On a free squat, as you saw in the video, I lean forward more AND I sometimes don't quite hit depth.

Probably this would be normal except for the fact that I am only a bit stronger in a free squat than a box squat (FS 5RM approx 135 kg, BxS 5RM approx 125 kg). Kind of a weird outcome.

So, I will focus on pushing my knees outward as much as possible in the free squat, looking at the ground just in front of me, and maybe avoiding a bit of forward lean but NOT at the expense of hamstring tension.

By the way, are you a "Horn" or an "Aggie"? The answer to this question might affect your willingness to provide any future guidance to me!!!!

Regards,
brittf

[Mark Rippetoe]

On a box squat, I clearly break parallel AND I don't tend to lean forward quite as much. On a free squat, as you saw in the video, I lean forward more AND I sometimes don't quite hit depth.

This is precisely why I don't program box squats for novices. You need to learn how to actually squat first.

And I am neither a sports fan or a partizan for either of these massive institutions.

[brittf]

On a box squat, I clearly break parallel AND I don't tend to lean forward quite as much. On a free squat, as you saw in the video, I lean forward more AND I sometimes don't quite hit depth.

This is precisely why I don't program box squats for novices. You need to learn how to actually squat first.

And I am neither a sports fan or a partizan for either of these massive institutions.

Okay, fair enough comment as the evidence seems to support your statement .

I train alone at my home gym, so I was using the box squat to help "train" my squat w/o the help of another pair of eyes. I was trying to follow Dave Tate's and Louie Simmons' writings about how to get a relative novice to squat correctly when there was no one else training with them. Their position is that the box squat is the best training tool under those conditions. Evidently, for me, I still need some video and trained eyes...

I actually know what you mean about being a sports "partizan" as it gets a bit silly at times...

But, what the heck, it is fun at times too...

Take care and thanks again for your time and effort.

Regards,
brittf