This guy has more problems than a weight training program can fix. How do you plan on getting a Vegan to gain weight, even if you do convince him that the Universe would like him to be bigger?
Member
SS for a dangerously underweight individual
Dear Coach-
A friend of mine recently came to me expressing the desire to gain weight and muscle mass. He is, in my own opinion, dangerously underweight-he is 6'2 and weighs approximately 125 pounds, and vegan to boot. I want to suggest SS to him as a means of developing both mass and strength, but I am concerned that the program may be too intense for him (he is basically anorexic). Would you recommend SS, scaled to what would be appropriate for him, or should he try to get to a more normal weight via a regular diet before he attempts any kind of weight training?
Thank you for your advice,
Joe
TMPHBITEU
This guy has more problems than a weight training program can fix. How do you plan on getting a Vegan to gain weight, even if you do convince him that the Universe would like him to be bigger?
Member
Vegans can gain weight just like anyone else. It just takes a little more consideration in choosing foods.
I'm not huge or super strong by any means, but I've been vegan for nearly six years - in the last year and a half since I began lifting weights, I've gone from ~180 lbs to 230 lbs. And beyond, at times
GOMAD is out for vegans, but it's quite possible to throw soy (or rice, or almond) milk in a blender, with fruit, oats, protein powder (soy, rice, pea, or hemp), and come out with something containing 1,000+ calories and 100 to 150 grams of protein.
But for someone who's 6'2" and 125 lbs, any food at all should help them. Pasta, lentils, beans, split peas... heck, even soy ice cream or vegan cookies. There are lots of options, it may just be difficult to get someone at that weight to actually eat, vegan or not.
In case it could help, VeganFitness.Net is a useful site. It's pretty well oriented towards those who actually compete at sport, with several vegan strongman competitors on there. Ie, lots of guys who weigh double what your friend does, and did it all on vegan diets.
Member
Maybe you should first try to convince him to stop being a vegan (even worse than a vegetarian i think) first. These arguments from Art de Vany(website) can help:
* "Why would you want to be a vegetarian? In terms of health, function, body composition, and longevity it is not a good thing to be a vegetarian. I respect your choice, but there must be compelling reasons beyond health that cause you to make this life choice.
* 25 thousand or even 12 thousand years ago it would have been impossible to survive as a vegetarian. Wild plants would have been an insufficient source of nourishment. Your ancestors in that time frame ate meat, of that there is no doubt.
* The last all vegetable eating human precursors were A. robustus and Ramidus (if I am recalling correctly). They did not survive. Their brains could not enlarge because they had too little long chain fatty acids and protein. They had to eat all day, had large stomachs, small brains, and little mobility, rather like the gorilla, a vegetarian primate.
* If we were adapted to an all vegetable diet, then we would have very large, robust jaws, huge jaw muscles and pointed heads. The crest on top of our heads would have to be there to anchor the powerful jaw muscles we would need.
* It is only in a safe, modern world with abundant food that one could even consider being a vegetarian. With out the many benefits of civilization, particularly soft vegetables that can be consumed without a massive jaw, vegetarians would not survive or even live well. With modern knowledge it is possible to be a vegetarian and eat supplements that will make up for the lack of fatty acids, taurine, and fat soluable vitamins in a vegetarian diet.
* A baby raised as a vegetarian will have an underdeveloped nervous system and a small and poorly functioning brain".
Member
Did someone call?Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe
Provided he's not one of those vegans who refuses all dairy products (and he probably is), one litre of whole milk, and one cup of Sierra trail mix provides 1480 calories and 60 grams of protein. I basically had three of those a day, on top of a few meals, and put on 40 pounds.
But, I gotta be honest, it wasn't easy, and this kid needs more than forty pounds. Closer to a hundred, I'd say. And it's not just about forcing yourself to eat more. Well, it is. But you also have to deal with your body rejecting the new plan. The vegans I know tend to want to live in harmony with themselves and the world around them (not with others, I've noticed) ... finding yourself puking after a set of squats generally isn't part of that deal. Nor shitting milk (yah, I had that too). Make no mistake, he could radically transform his body, but he will face radical resistance in the process.
Now if he doesn't do milk products, we have a further problem. I suppose he could consume about 5-6 cups a day of trail mix on top of his regular meals ... but I'm telling you right now it won't be pretty.
Another thought:
With a little strength, he might be a wicked rock climber ...
Consider this strategy:
1) Dump lemon juice on his hair, and have him sit in the sun until he finishes reading ...
2) On Power and Ideology: The Managua Lectures by Noam Chomsky
3) Hand him a big bag of trailmix, tell him to eat that each day, in addition to his meals.
4) Send him to a good climbing gym. On a bicycle.
5) Don't look back.
I dunno, just a thought. I think I have my best ideas at around 2 am ... what do you think, Rip?
Member
Forget hoping for progress on an intense program like SS without animal progress. Veganism and weights do not mix, from personal experience (I prefer 6'0 and 168lb to 5'10 and 135lb)
Member
How could the program be too intense? It is, in Rip's words, "infinitely scaleable" (I think that quote is right).
Rip, I met a pretty big vegetarian a while back - 100 or 110 kg powerlifter actually. Sure he's not a vegan, but how hard could it be to convince/trick a vegan to be merely vegetarian?
Member
Member
My mistake, coach-he informed me he's vegetarian, not vegan. He can eat eggs, milk, and soy (don't kill me! His words, not mine). But I gather that would be beside the point...it sounds like weight training may not be for him right now. Thank you for your help.
Member
The best thing you could do for your friend is to help him to understand the the glory that is livestock animals. His main criteria for food needs to be "did it try to run before it died, or could it have if there was room?", which is gonna take some major intervention. His second criteria needs to be "can it physically be eaten by a primate without causing said primate to die or be ill?". And then he needs to eat a whole hell of a lot of anything that fits these criteria.
Veganism is just ethically wrong.
Craig
Posting Permissions
