toes out on the squat

[michaelc]

Hi All,
Michael here. A new guy on the forum. I have been having a discussion with another trainer about angling the toes out when you squat. She insists that it is not necessary and I have always been taught that that is how you do it correctly. My question is: Is there a biomechanical reason for pointing the toes out? I would like to go back to this discussion armed with some concrete reasons why we do this so that I can win the argument (and help to inform her)
Thanks for any help
Michael

[Charles Staley]

When you assume a natural stance, your toes will angle out. Actually the angle is created by slight external rotation of the femurs. Virtually all competent/heavy squats are performed this way, in both powerlifting and Olympic lifting.

Hi All,
Michael here. A new guy on the forum. I have been having a discussion with another trainer about angling the toes out when you squat. She insists that it is not necessary and I have always been taught that that is how you do it correctly. My question is: Is there a biomechanical reason for pointing the toes out? I would like to go back to this discussion armed with some concrete reasons why we do this so that I can win the argument (and help to inform her)
Thanks for any help
Michael

[michaelc]

Thanks Charles

[coldfire]

Hi All,
Michael here. A new guy on the forum. I have been having a discussion with another trainer about angling the toes out when you squat. She insists that it is not necessary and I have always been taught that that is how you do it correctly. My question is: Is there a biomechanical reason for pointing the toes out? I would like to go back to this discussion armed with some concrete reasons why we do this so that I can win the argument (and help to inform her)
Thanks for any help
Michael

Search a little. It has been discussed in this forum many times.

Reading Starting Strength might help too.

[cheesedips]

personal trainers everywhere teach the squat wrong..i see at ballys daily, they teach half sq with toes almost straight..not good.toes out makes it easy to reach depth

[Smack]

Toes out. I can't imagine squatting any other way.

[Kenny Croxdale]

personal trainers everywhere teach the squat wrong..i see at ballys daily, they teach half sq with toes almost straight..not good.toes out makes it easy to reach depth

Cheesedip,

It does make it easier to reach depth with your toes pointed out. However, I never have squatted very well with my toes out.

I do much better with my toes pointed straight ahead and have even squatted well with my toes pointed in, pigeon toed.

Squatting with your toes pointed in makes it's harder to get down but easier to get up. I am not sure why the is.

Kenny Croxdale

[Sami]

Some powerlifters will squat with a very wide stance and toes pointed forward, almost parallel. This twists the knees and make it hard to get depth, however an extremely heavy weight will get the lifter down anyway. The twisted knees hold elastic energy that helps lift the weight. However, it doesn't take much thought to realise that this can't be good long term for the knees.

[TomV]

Pardon the poor explanation, this comes only from my memory early on a Sunday morning.

I remember Rip writing an article called "The Active Hip" which was available through the Crossfit Journal (not sure if he published it anywhere else). In the article he details specifically why toes out is better for hitting depth.

From memory (which is poor at the moment), when toes are out and the legs follow them in the correct position ("knees out") it allows certain landmarks on the hip and femur to stay clear of one another, allowing for better movement of the pelvis.

[BryanM]

Common sense would suggest the knee and foot should be pointing in the same direction, as otherwise you've rotated the bottom of the tibia and fibia, where they're aligned in a suboptimal way to bear weight (imagine a two by four twisted in the middle), and also the load transmitted up to the knee comes up at an unhappy angle, a "twisting force".

I don't even know how it's possible to have feet forward with a shoulder width or wider stance without exploding into a crumpled heap.

For more fun, try to convince her unweighted sit ups on the floor are completely useless. Compare them to pumping your fist in the air to get big bicepz. This always ends up well. Trust me.