Young oly lifter looking for advice.

[DJC416]

So here's my dilemma that strongly correlates to "is olympic weightlifting strength training?"

I've been training oly for the past 3 months now. I know it's not much at all, but hear me out. My PRs are 90 CJ and 70 SN at the moment (BW 80kg). However the past two weeks I've been rather frustrated and have come to a big conclusion:

I'm weak as fuck. Especially compared to when I was strength training.

I have a great coach and I'm making great improvements with my technique. However my coach's first language is not English so it's hard to get him to explain things. Our programming is very typical. We only snatch, clean and jerk, squat, and all the variations (snatch pull, front squat, jerk behind the neck from rack, etc), along with weighted back extensions and good mornings. These exercises are all great and I can see a use for all of them, but it still feels like something's missing.

Inquiring about deadlifting to help strengthen all the movements gets me nowhere. The coach and most others at the gym have the typical view that since deadlifts are pulled slowly, they will not help your cleans and may actually hurt your progress. I combat this with "only maximal deadlifts are slow - maximal squats are also slow, and we still do those." It goes nowhere, it just seems almost like tradition that oly lifters don't deadlift. And I don't know why.

I did SS in the past and in 3 months of that, I could powerclean, uncoached, what I can full clean now. For 5x3. Uncoached. With iron plates. I got my deadlift up to 375x5, but now that I haven't been strength training, 90kg feels heavier than it should off the floor.

Needless to say, I'm fucking pissed. On one hand, I love oly lifting, my coach, and everyone who I train with and would not want to leave all of that behind to pursue my own "crazy ideas". On the other, I am a weak little bitch, even compared to what I used to be. and I feel it's holding me back. My technique has improved tenfold, however a few other lifters can just power through shitty technique and do better than me.

My plan right now is to move from my lift program to the actual WL team, which would double my time training. That should be enough to get my numbers moving, at least for a little while. After that, I'm conflicted on what I should do. I KNOW strength training will help my numbers, but it would be really hard to part with my team. They stress patience at my gym, that everything will come in time. And I'm sure it will. But I'm 20 years old with competitive aspirations and I should have started 10 years ago. I don't have time. Provincials is closing in soon, and I need to get my total up 50kg.

Phew. If nothing else, it felt good to get this rant off my chest. If anyone has anything to add, please do. This oly lifting is still really new to me. Maybe I'm just having a bad week and I'm pissed as fuck, but I really believe that 90kg should never feel even remotely heavy for any 80kg male.

[Mr_Rogers]

I definitely wish I had finished my novice LP before I switched. I was impatient and as you'd say, am a weak little bitch. I often feel I'd be able to lift more if I was stronger, but in reality my technique is next to shit. So really the worst of both worlds, so I understand your frustration.

My coach programs strength movements into some of his cycles (press, bench, back stuff, SLDLs, RDLs, etc) on top of his regular pulling (full versions, power versions) and squats (back and front). He normally throws in an insane amount of pulling volume in the form of snatch and clean (high) pulls. When I fucked with his programming thinking I need more strength work (which was pretty much all the time) I saw shit results because I was impatient. Our other lifter who stuck to the program did much better, but he also had a much higher strength base to start from. He's a 77kg lifter snatching around body weight (maybe a bit higher) and C&J in between 100-110kg. I'm nowhere near that. I started to see the error of my ways since the competition in November when the three of us took a break. Trying to program strength and oly hasn't gone all that well. We're finally going to get back to things in the next couple of weeks, but I won't be making the same mistakes by adding a ton of things to programming.

You're only 20, I'm 31 so you've got more time than you think lol My advice to you is register for provincials and compete there. I'm 99% positive Ontario allows people who don't have qualifying totals to compete at provincials for up to 3 years. After that you must earn a qualifying total. I would look into that if I were you, especially if you have competitive aspirations. Finally, don't put so much pressure on yourself. I've made a lot of the same mistakes and assumptions despite my coach constantly telling me that it's a process. I personally think you'll see results if you stick to the program, 2-a-days won't hurt either if you can handle them.

Tamara wrote something in a post a week or so ago (or at least that's when I read it). Basically if you want to be a weightlifter, be a weightlifter.

Sorry if this jumped around a lot, I'm at work.

[PackMule]

Still remember you weighed what--10-15 kilos more than you do now at the end of your SS run? That makes a huge difference. Losing weight fast can take a lot out of you. Combine that with going to a completely different style of training and it looks worse than it is I'd bet.

More training time can't hurt though. I'd say stick with it man. Join the team, follow the coach, and give it 100%. Train hard and stick to one training style for an extended period of time. At least a year. 3 months is hardly anything. That's just starting to get into a groove.

[PFerrari]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsyzRUKwgng

You're frustrated? Welcome to weightlifting. It is a frustrating sport. Sometimes the bar just feels heavy. Like they say in the Big Lebowski "Sometimes you eat the bar, and sometimes the bar eats you." Yesterday power cleaning 85 kg felt heavy even though my PR is 114. Does that mean I should do some more deadlifts? No. The reason your coach doesn't want you to do heavy deadlifts is you will do them differently than you will a clean. While you're still learning proper technique you want to pull the bar the same way as your competitive lifts every single time (or as close to it as possible). Maybe ask your coach to program in some clean pulls at 100-110? That should be a big heavier but not change your form much. (Kind of like adding a weight to a baseball bat in warm-ups).

You've been at it 3 months. Stick with it awhile. Remember, the goal is to make progress in the snatch and clean&jerk. As long as those are improving, keep doing what you're doing.

[Tamara Reynolds]

You're frustrated? Welcome to weightlifting. It is a frustrating sport.

I will come back and post something helpful in a bit, but right now I am too busy laughing...

[Tamara Reynolds]

Three months is nothing.

I guess the best answer is that you have to find a coach who you "click" with, or you have to go at it alone. If you have a coach, then there is no point in paying them if you want to do something other than their programming. And, having a coach you "click" with doesn't necessarily mean that you agree with them or even like them.

From personal experience, I would say to pay less attention to your squat and deadlift numbers and more attention to your snatch and clean and jerk numbers. YES, it is important to be strong. But, if you add 20 kg to your squat, and your snatch stays the same, then what was the point? You are a weightlifter, and the POINT is the snatch and the clean and jerk. It would be better to add nothing to your squat and add 20 kg to your snatch in the same time period. It would be BEST to add to your squat AND add to your snatch at the same time, but that may not always happen.

I was frustrated with my squats for a long time, but then my snatch and clean and jerk kept going up. So... mission accomplished in my book. Stronger IS better, but it's not that simple.

PFerrari is right, though. Welcome to weightlifting. It is a frustrating sport. You've been frustrated for 3 months, I've been frustrated for 2 years. 2 years is still a very short amount of time...

[250orBust]

I'm 99% positive Ontario allows people who don't have qualifying totals to compete at provincials for up to 3 years. After that you must earn a qualifying total.

Can you confirm this? I should be posted there in 2 months.

[Mr_Rogers]

It looks like I was reading in the wrong section, I guess the exemption applies to Nationals (in Edmonton this year). From OWA:

Note: Non-qualified athletes may not compete more than two times at the Canadian national championships. Athletes must achieve the standard to compete at the Canadian national championships after two years as a non-qualified athlete.

I'll email OWA to see if they have a non-qualified athlete exemption because I could have sworn I read it listed on their site under the provincial qualifying standards.

[250orBust]

Thanks!

[DJC416]

Wow guys, lots of positive feedback here.

You're all right too, 3 months is nothing. I just manned up, ate a buffet last night, and hit 75/95. Damnit this sport is frustrating, at some points it feels like you're making zero progress or even losing progress, and then all of a sudden something clicks.

Box work is helping my second pull at the moment.