Lifting for endurance athletes

[Andy McL]

I know that you have briefly covered this topic on the board before (http://startingstrength.com/resource...ight=endurance), but I can't find any example programs for endurance athletes. I am a collegiate XC skier and rower, and I was wondering how to adapt Starting Strength for a more endurance focus. On page 80 of PPST 2nd Ed. you recommend alternating workouts of higher rep sets (15-20) with the normal 5 rep sets. However, you don't talk much more about how to program for it. I was also wondering if a 2 day a week strength program might be more fitting, so as not to detract from the aerobic workouts. How effective do you think a program like this would be?

Monday
Squat 3x5
Bench 3x5
Cleans 5x3
Back Ext. 5x10


Thursday
Squat 1x20
Shoulder Press 3x5
Chins 3x15
Dips 3x20 (Chins and Dips supersetted)


I was also wondering what your take on complexes and circuit workouts for conditioning. Thanks for any input.

[Mark Rippetoe]

We don't adapt the program for endurance athletes. Endurance athletes adapt by doing the program as written (which btw includes deadlifts) and they then adapt by getting stronger.

[Brenden]

I too am an XC skier. At the beginning of the season I was considering moving to a progam involving weekly 20rep squats, dips instead of bench presses, 20rep presses, straight-arm pulldowns, and explosive rope tricep pull-downs. I think deadlifts are important for skiing, because I personally often find my lower back to be a weak spot in skiing. I don't think cleans or other explosive work is applicable, because I've heard that LSD tends to decrease vertical jumps, and I assume the inverse is roughly true. Some sort of "ab" work is probably useful too, although I really don't know what excercise has the best specificity, because in skiing the abdominals/hip flexors are worked concentrically, not isometrically. Perhaps incline situps/leg raises. Because I want to be completely recovered on the weekends, when I ski, I too was thinking a twice-weekly program would be best, probably Mon/Wed, with HIIT and LSD 2-3 times weekly, depending on motivation to excel, as well as weekend snow time.

After searching these forums for endurance, 20rep squat, and a few other search terms, I decided it was more useful to continue my novice progression and increase absolute strength, and perhaps next season consider a more tailored program. But I'm also not racing competitively, and only begun serious sustained weight lifting six months ago.

Andy, whatever you end up doing, I would appreciate a post-season PM letting me know how effective your program ended up being. Rip, I would love to hear you expand upon your comment in the linked thread: "Teabagger should do some 10s, surely, and maybe even some 20s. I just want him to understand what he's actually doing when he does them, and more importantly what he's not doing." What is the benefit of high-rep work for endurance sports? My guess is that it's not metabolic conditioning, as it still doesn't use the same energy patheway, but rather an increase in blood throughput and the ability to flush waste products out of the muscles.

Tangentially and anecdotally, I've noticed that my "warmup" pace on erg rowing machines has improved from ~2:15/500m to ~2:05/500m since beginning SS. This has reinforced for me that increased strength really does carry over to endurance sports, by making each stroke a lower percentage of maximal ability.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Rip, I would love to hear you expand upon your comment in the linked thread: "Teabagger should do some 10s, surely, and maybe even some 20s. I just want him to understand what he's actually doing when he does them, and more importantly what he's not doing." What is the benefit of high-rep work for endurance sports? My guess is that it's not metabolic conditioning, as it still doesn't use the same energy pathway, but rather an increase in blood throughput and the ability to flush waste products out of the muscles.

The advice is specifically for intermediate athletes, and is more due to the fact that endurance athletes have to do something besides 5s at the post-novice level. Just know that there is no such thing as oxidative-pathway training under the bar, as mentioned in the post.

[lylemcd]

It's worth noting that most research on strength training for endurance performance hasn't found much of an improvement in terms of actual endurance. A couple of odd studies have (or found improvemnts of indirect markers of perforamnce but no actual gains of performance) but the majority have not.

However, at least two studies on X-country skiing specifically did find that heavy upper body work (sets of 5 at like 85-90% 1RM) improved poling efficiency.

Just realize that, from a specificity point of view, max strength is unlikely to improve oxidative metabolism or performance much. Might keep you healthier, might be something to do if you can't ski but don't expect it to drastically improve performance hugely in most endurance sports.

For the record, neither will goofing off for 20-25 reps. Yeah, sure it's local muscular endurance but compare 2 sets of 25 to the hundreds/thousands of reps you get during a typical endurance workout (e.g. cycling 1 hour at 90 cadence = 4500 reps; 25 is irrelevant).

Lyle

[gordonrumble]

Thanks for posting about those studies. I have a few friends in endurance athletics who were curious about this and this info will really help.

[Andy McL]

Thank you for the responses! I will stick with the 5s for the time being, though I'll probably keep the lifting sessions at 2 per week to keep a focus on the skiing.

[pamparius]

There's a couple of studies done in Norway on orienteerers where explosive training/lifting improved their endurance performance. I could look them up if anyone is interested.